Current Trends in Recruiting and Hiring

Current Trends in Recruiting and Hiring
The Faces of Business

Current Trends in Recruiting and Hiring

In this, The Faces of Business, Kelly Robinson, Founder & Chief Executive Officer, PKR, discusses the evolving workplace and the new realities employers need to accept and incorporate into their businesses.

Kelly is a mother, entrepreneur, dog mom, and an award-winning talent acquisition operations strategist, with 20+ years of experience in recruiting and hiring operations, in diverse environments and various industries. Kelly founded PKR to build a team that shares expertise with busy leaders and recruiters to support them in building succinct strategies to attract and retain talent.

Kelly and the team at PKR recruit with the intention of retention, which allows their clients to build high-performing teams.

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Damon keenly starts the show. Kelly’s in-depth discussion is something he encourages. He requests the guest to talk about the Talent Acquisition Operations Strategist. She answers that these are two different things. She’s interested in the recruitment process. Similarly, it takes a framework or strategy to hire people.

Kelly explains the untraditional relationship with her clients. In the recruiting industry, recruiters are often seen negatively as people who simply try to place people in jobs for a fee. However, PKR operates differently and has now grown to twenty-two personnel. It works on behalf of its clients, providing professional services firm-like relationship with no commission or incentive to place people in jobs to make money.

The focus is on building a partnership with the client and providing a high-quality service that results in successful hires and strong relationships. The company may also act as the client’s representative in a white-label capacity, but ultimately their goal is to make good matches that result in long-term success for the client. Other than recruiting, “we [PKR] have to make sure that we’re thinking about retention all the time.”

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Although Kelly has been recruited on a commission basis for six years, she finds partnership more meaningful and satisfying. It is because these two models have very different motivations and approaches. In the first model, the focus is on the candidate and finding them the best fit for their skills and goals. On the other, the focus is on the client and providing them with the best fit for their hiring needs, regardless of the candidate’s goals. The former model focuses on quick placements, while the latter focuses on long-term retention and success for both the client and the candidate.

Damon invites Kelly’s comments on the recent emerging trends in recruitment. She guest distinguishes between hiring and recruiting. Candidates have a different outlook on the current world, requiring recruiters to interact with them differently and ask specific questions. Recruiters have to understand what’s important to the candidate as they have many options, such as working from home or in a different location from where they live. It is now possible that someone may live in Seattle and work in Philadelphia. “That makes it more difficult.” Recruiters must be aware of these nuances to be effective in their role.

To Damon’s query whether or not the prospective candidates have gotten more selective in the jobs they take, Kelly answers that the job market has changed, with many candidates opting for remote work and more options available to them. It makes it harder for recruiters to candidates accurately. In the past, candidates in demand would bypass assessments during the interview process, as companies were eager to hire them. However, with the current wave of layoffs, the job market has flipped, and it is uncertain what will happen.

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Kelly reveals that clients are putting hiring on pause due to economic uncertainty and potential layoffs. Layoffs may hurt overpaid workers. The skill set of these people will not be valued at their current compensation.

Kelly discusses the changes in the job market and how the current job market is different from the past. There has been a wave of layoffs to her, and more effects are yet to come. The guest maintains that some underkilled workers are overpaid.

Moreover, she talks about the rise of entrepreneurship among young people who have recently graduated from college and their desire to work from home. Kelly suggests that they need real-life experience in business and industry. “They have to be out there,” advises Kelly.

Damon agrees with Kelly and relates that his son graduated recently and worked remotely for the first few months. Now he goes to the office a few days a week as he finds office time helpful in developing relationships. The host believes that the challenge for companies is integrating remote workers into the company culture.

Kelly reflects on how remote work has affected the integration of new workers into a company’s culture, especially in larger companies. She notes that in-person interaction helps build relationships and get a better understanding of different departments and their roles. She believes remote workers “miss a big piece of it.”

Damon and Kelly believe that the changes in remote work due to COVID-19 have brought benefits and challenges.

For small companies, remote work has made it easier to communicate but harder to build relationships. Newer workers find it challenging to integrate into the company culture and learn about different departments. For some, it is easier to disconnect from work but for others, it’s harder. Remote work has allowed employees to save time and money, but it’s also a big change.

Damon adds that companies must be clear about their remote work policies and communicate them to employees when hired. Similarly, forcing employees to return to the office after being hired as remote workers can cause frustration and lead to employee resignations.

Kelly mentions that companies must consider factors such as candidates’ ability to work effectively from home and accommodate remote work. This has made the hiring process more complex and opened up a wider pool of talent. On the flip side, companies are facing new challenges, such as cutting corners in hiring or paying high sign-up bonuses to attract workers in competitive industries like healthcare.

Kelly suggests that hiring managers must ask strategic questions. Questions on candidates’ communication and crisis management are great for deeply understanding a candidate’s remote work experience and style.

By asking these types of questions, you can better understand their ability to stay organized and minimize distractions and their work routine. With this understanding, recruiters can determine if any candidate is a good fit for remote work and your team culture.

Additionally, asking about their biggest challenge and what they like or dislike about working from home can provide valuable insight.

Damon changes the course of discussion from recruitment to the hiring process. He asks the guest about the changes that have taken place lately.

Kelly says that moving things too quickly in the hiring process can result in bad hires and organizations cutting corners. This often happens in the tech industry, where job candidates are offered multiple positions at once, and the hiring process is rushed. To avoid this, organizations should stick to a well-defined hiring process, even if it takes a little more time.

Similarly, she suggests that hiring managers must be transparent, provide feedback, and keep the candidate “warm and keep them ongoing.”

While talking about recruitment process outsourcing (RPO), Kelly says it is a cost-effective and predictable solution for companies to manage their recruitment process. She does hear that RPO can help companies save money, reduce turnover, improve candidate experience, and enhance their employer brand. As the focus on these important aspects of recruitment increases, companies are becoming more open to RPO as a solution, making it an exciting time for the industry. However, there is still a need for education and awareness about RPO and its benefits, as not everyone is familiar with it yet.

Damon wants to know how Kelly hunts for potential candidates. The guest mentions that she has experience finding and creating client profiles. This process is somewhat similar to sales. The process involves figuring out the target market for the recruited person, including where they live and spend time online. Although LinkedIn is a fertile forum to find talent, Kelly hunts for and digs up professionals who may not be on LinkedIn, like nurses and physicians.

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40:07

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

people, hiring, recruiting, recruiter, candidates, clients, companies, damon, pay, job, hiring managers, outsource, talk, home, match, office, find, comp, work, hear

SPEAKERS

Damon Pistulka, Kelly Robinson

 

Damon Pistulka  00:02

All right, everyone, welcome once again to the faces of business. I’m your host, Damon Pistulka. And first of all, I am going to start off with an apology. I was talking with Kelly Robinson here behind in the greenroom and we did not realize what time it was. We will continue some of those conversations because they’re relevant to what’s happening this weekend. But first of all, I want to want to welcome Kelly Robinson from PKR. Talking today about current trends in recruiting and hiring Kelly, thanks for being here today.

 

Kelly Robinson  00:35

Thanks, Damon. For you, and you’re one of my first like LinkedIn friends from years ago.

 

Damon Pistulka  00:42

Awesome. Yeah. Well, I remember Yeah, remember, back, back when we didn’t know what video was?

 

Kelly Robinson  00:49

No, it was like, this was all new. And I had live and we would get on it and like, be silly. And we were testing it all out. And it was Yeah. It was fun.

 

Damon Pistulka  01:00

Oh, yeah. Like the Wild West, like the wild west in some regards.

 

Kelly Robinson  01:08

To on these videos, like it’s just the whole No, it’s like the way the world right?

 

Damon Pistulka  01:12

Yes. Yes. Let’s talk about that a little bit. You’ve you’ve done a fair amount of I mean, so let’s just back up. Let’s let’s do a little background on you. I mean, you’re you are a 20 plus year recruiting veteran, you are a Talent Acquisition Operations strategist. I’m gonna have to have you explain that to me. And then and then let’s let’s talk a bit about because you’ve, you’ve done a lot of talks, and a lot of a lot of present presentations and things around recruiting. And but let’s start off and talk about what is a Talent Acquisition Operations strategist.

 

Kelly Robinson  01:56

It’s just a marketing. It’s top secret, but it’s also just a marketing little tool. Ya know, so what I what I do best is I’m a recruiter at heart, but I’m really good at looking at the process. And the strategy, right, there’s two things you need to understand the strategy, but there’s a framework for any kind of recruiting process. So that is what I do. That’s my me personally. That’s my thing. Yeah, yeah.

 

Damon Pistulka  02:27

So now you found it. You found PKR awhile ago, and how your team has grown quite a bit how many people you have on your team now?

 

Kelly Robinson  02:37

We’ve 22. Now? Yeah, yeah. So

 

Damon Pistulka  02:41

first of all, explain kind of what? That’s pretty well, I don’t know if you heard that. But we have thunder in Seattle today. No, that’s wild. Yeah, yeah. You just never know.

 

02:58

So the so as you guys had PKR, you guys are helping

 

Damon Pistulka  03:02

people with recruiting and hiring people. But it’s not the traditional relationship. Let’s just talk about that a little bit.

 

Kelly Robinson  03:09

No. So it’s, it’s quite the opposite of what you think of, when you hear the word recruiter, it’s a dirty word, right? Because people are like, Oh, those are the people that tried to just take money and find me a body and things like that. We actually do the opposite. There’s no commission. There’s no incenting behavior to push someone in a seat. So we work on behalf of our client partners.

So it’s a strict relationship with you know, that one partner, we’re doing a search for them, or many searches for them on their behalf. And so everything that we’re doing, while the strategies process, any tools like that, anything that we’re bringing to the table, that’s theirs, we’re building it for them. It’s like a professional services firm. Whereas traditional recruiters, Headhunters, they work on commission or, you know, retained searches or something like that executive searches, they really are focused on candidates, because that’s what makes them money.

So the sort of recruiters really, I know people say they’re salespeople, and maybe they are but they really don’t close a deal. In our business, we have to close a deal. I have to get a contract that says you’re gonna pay me this monthly, you know, this flat monthly fee, and we’re working for you not based on how many hires you get based on the objective of the partnership, which is of course to get to hires. So very different.

A very, we can be white label, like our private label, sometimes with companies they want us to have their email addresses and act as them to help with their brand Seeing and marketing and things like that from an employer perspective. But it really is a partnership with the with the client we work for, for the client. So we have to make really good matches because we’re doing either all or part of their hiring. So if someone falls off, that’s not good. Right. So yeah, we really have to make sure that we’re thinking about retention all the time.

 

Damon Pistulka  05:26

Yes. Because that’s the that’s the, the, I think, with a in a straight recruiting, you know, either retained with a with incentive at the end are completely incentivized return recruiting, the retention is what people always worry about.

 

Kelly Robinson  05:46

Yeah, that’s exactly it. Because they’re, you know, I did that recruiting for six years where it was all commission. And it was hard for me to do that. I ended up working a lot more hours, but I, you know, I was young, and I made a lot of money, too. But it was really important for me to make really good fits. So I probably, you know, had to work harder than everyone else.

Because, you know, but it’s a numbers game for them, right? They’re gonna push in some things, and then they’re gonna see who, who’s paying the highest fee? Because clients love to negotiate their fees on their contracts and say, Oh, you want 30%?

Okay, well, I’ll pay you 20. And then the recruiter says, 25, that was what you’re gonna pay, you know, whatever the client says they’re gonna win. But they might not get as much attention. Yeah, other clients, and that recruiter is working on candidates behalf, really, so they’re working on a date, you know, in a database of all of these, you know, similar skill sets, because that’s what they do, right?

So they build that up, and then they sell it. So to speak, to the highest bidder, and they increase, you know, comp, and all kinds of things. So it’s a really different, it’s a really different world to do that. It’s not bad. It’s not wrong, whatever you could do really well. But it doesn’t make for good matches long term, necessarily, because that’s really not the intention there.

 

07:18

Is a great, that’s a great viewpoint on that to be able to explain it because it is a recruiters do work a very long time to build up a book of candidates that they can match with corporations. That’s exactly

 

Kelly Robinson  07:33

Yeah. So I had some what I was doing some prospecting, and someone responded the other day, I need a blah, blah, blah, do you have one? And that’s that’s typically what people think. Right? But no, I don’t know. I don’t have one. That’s, that’s not what we do. Right? I don’t have that specific skill set, I would go find that for you. My team would go on that for you. That’s, that’s what we do. And then they might line they keep everything.

 

Damon Pistulka  08:03

Yeah. So now, not only changing and starting PKR, and doing doing recruiting with with companies with I say with because I think it’s not for it’s with companies, the way you’re doing it now. explain some of the changes you’ve seen over the last couple of years in recruiting that just just recruiting not the hiring yet. Because they’re just the recruiting candidates and finding candidates and things like that, that have changed significantly in the last couple of years.

 

Kelly Robinson  08:39

Now, it’s a whole, it’s a whole new world. So candidates have a whole different order, you know, prospective candidates or prospective employees, they have a whole different outlook. So it’s different, and even just the way that we interact with them the types of questions that we have to ask, we really have to dig in because they do have more options just because of the world, how the world has changed. And it’s not just options, meaning, you know, positions, it means, you know, they want to work at home now, and they want to work this and they want to do this and they don’t want to travel and they they want to work.

They can work in Seattle, they live in Philadelphia, but you know, they’re going to work in Seattle. So there’s so many different opportunities and options within them. That makes it more difficult. The recruiter. The recruiter really has to drill down and understand what’s important to them to that candidate. Because they might all work at a company in Philadelphia and I live in Arizona, but have they ever done that? Do they know what that’s like?

Do they really know what they’re gonna get themselves into? You know, do they know know when there’s like a holiday party or something, maybe they’re not included? Or, you know, do they know that they can be without people that long? So there’s a lot of unknowns. But then there’s all you know, there’s just a lot of different nuances now that we recruiters need to know about.

 

Damon Pistulka  10:19

Yeah. Do you think that the prospective candidates have gotten more selective in the jobs that they take?

 

Kelly Robinson  10:32

For sure, because there’s, there’s all these different things. Now. They’re like, wow, you know, I’d rather stay at home, I’d rather do this, or I think I could get more money somewhere else. But they also the ones that are really good, they, they’re in demand, and they know it. We’ve had like, so for example, even through like the interview process, when we’re doing tech recruiting, technical teams often interview part of the interview is giving some type of assessment. Right, that’s, that’s very common in tech recruiting.

We went through a, probably a good year, with one of our clients, where it was such a difficult thing to get anyone to take the assessment because they didn’t need to anymore. So companies were just hiring them. They’re just bypassing their assessments, because they’re so in demand, they were so kind of desperate to hire. Which is That’s rough, right?

That’s really, that’s rough. But you don’t want to take shortcuts, but you’re in this position. So you have the candidates now that have become kind of in control, right, the job seekers have become in control of it, depending on, you know, roles. But now things are flipping right, with all the layoffs and things like that. And there’s a whole new wave coming out, we’ll have to, we’ll have to see what happens. But

 

Damon Pistulka  12:05

a new wave of layoffs,

 

Kelly Robinson  12:07

just with the layoffs, probably a lot more to our we have a lot of our clients that are putting things on pause. Because they’re not sure, you know, because everyone was worried about all the talk was, you know, economy and things like that. And so people are doing that. But with that, with all those layoffs, there’s still we haven’t seen the effects of all of that, right?

Because they’re still there, there are more to come for sure. People have for hired and overpaid. We’re gonna see the effects of that. Where people are not, they’re not valued at the comp that they’re being paid anymore. Their skill set is not valued at the comp. So you know, we’re Oh, I

 

Damon Pistulka  13:00

see it. You mean? So you hired Damon in but you hired Damon, it was a 20% premium, because at the time, the competition was great. Right now, we don’t need people at a 20% premium anymore.

 

Kelly Robinson  13:12

That’s right. Crazy, right. So you know, tech, they they over hired, but they had to because look at what the world was doing. Everything was online.

 

Damon Pistulka  13:25

Yeah. Yeah. And that. I mean, that’s, I think, anyway, in that in the tech world, it was just they were reacting to demand and demand went up like crazy. And the ban went down like crazy. And yeah, they reacted.

 

Kelly Robinson  13:39

Yeah. But yeah, I don’t think they did anything wrong. Right. It did what they needed for their business. It’s just, you know, on the other side now, here’s what’s happened. So I think we have yet to see a lot of a lot more of the effects of some of those things, which is interesting, because it’s, I can remember talking to you like, in the very beginning, right when this all started happening, and here we are, it’s like three years later, three years. That’s crazy. Yeah, it is. So different. Yeah. Yeah. So, so different. And you have these now we have kids coming out of school that like, you know, everyone thinks they’re an entrepreneur.

It’s funny, they go to these entrepreneurial programs and I got I got runner now, you know, it’s doesn’t work like that. Go get some real life experience. But the other thing is, this is a you know, I digress. But the other thing is they want to work at home because they were in college and home, right? And they want to feel like they can do this and that it’s really important for them to be in a business work, you know, in industry, like they have to be out there.

 

Damon Pistulka  14:55

Yeah, that’s an interesting that’s an interesting piece because I’ve seen that all My son, my son graduated a year ago, in December. And he worked the first. I don’t know, six, eight months without ever going to the office. And now they’ve started to go back a little bit. And they’re going to be back a few days a week. And I think some of that office time is helpful to develop that those relationships, and so many companies hired remote workers across the US or across the world that, you know, how do they really integrate those people into the culture? Like you would if they were there? At least a little bit? At least a little bit?

 

Kelly Robinson  15:32

Yeah. And then the larger companies have more issues. With that, it’s harder, you know, I’m, we’re a small company. So I talk to everyone almost every day, right? Like, and we talk on videos, like we don’t yeah, we either call each other on Zoom or slack, like there’s no phone anymore. So, you know, they see the best of me in the mornings. And sometimes the day, but we do a lot of that because it helps. But I do think the the newer workforce, it’s really hard if they can’t get in and meet people, and like you said, just to build relationships, but it’s all about, you know, how do you communicate?

And what about different departments? And what about on your team? And what do the other departments do? And how do they affect your job? And how do you affect their job? And what’s the, you know, there’s so much to see and learn, in person that you can’t always get? I mean, maybe you can, but I don’t think you I don’t think I think I miss a big piece of it.

 

Damon Pistulka  16:37

You miss it. You miss Selma? Definitely. Well, I’ve been I’ve been sitting here and we’ve been talking and there’s been a lot of comments coming up and say, Curtis, first of all stopped in I need it. It was a while ago now. Sorry. And we had Michelle from Texas, a Michelle, how you doing today? We had Ira it from SoCal, where it’s always nice.

 

Kelly Robinson  16:57

I’m talking to Ira tomorrow.

 

Damon Pistulka  17:00

Yeah, we’ll talk about that in a moment. We got Marty here from Florida. Awesome. And Mary Jane Wilson, a from California as well, you’re getting in and get some nice weather going on here. So yeah, it is an interesting and I really, I personally think hybrid work is one of the best options if you can do it.

Especially if you’re limited in a city environment with people that are commuting long distances, because I know here in Seattle, a lot of people were commuting one hour and a half, sometimes even two hours one way to an office and back. And if you think about that, that two or three or four hours a day commuting just grinds on people so much. And I you gotta have better, happier, more engaged people, if they’ve got that time. And that’s there’s one good thing about COVID A gay people that time. And I think now there’s a happy medium between the two.

 

Kelly Robinson  18:06

I think you’re right. And I also think what’s changed is even even the folks those of us that were working at home before it was harder to disconnect from work. i This is maybe my own personal experience, but I find it easier now.

Because I’ve trained myself just because when you’re home 24/7 You know, it’s like, I’ve trained myself, I have an office. So I get up and I and I go right, and I might have to get on my laptop and do things later, whatever. I’m a business owner, but I don’t expect my team to do that. And I’ve enforced that with them too. So it is a whole different, but I do think they’re happier. They’re saving time. Money. Right? It’s it’s a big difference. It’s a big, big difference. And they have you know, people do have more options now.

 

Damon Pistulka  18:59

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s an interesting time for sure. And I know that some of these companies who have, you know, forced everyone to come back to the office are finding that there’s a certain majority of them that aren’t coming back, because they’ve got used to it, or I’ve even heard of some companies where they hired someone as fully remote, but now they’re saying, I’m sorry, you’re coming back to the office.

And I think that to me, I think that the whole the second part of that, you know, if you’re a hired and you’re in the office before and you’re coming back, I mean, that’s that’s a choice. Don’t come back if you don’t want to, but you were already there once but if you got hired remote, and now you’re saying you got to come to work. That’s that’s kind of on the company. I think in my my perspective, my viewpoint. You should expect to lose a lot of people doing that,

 

Kelly Robinson  19:51

I think yeah, yeah. And maybe they do.

 

Damon Pistulka  19:55

That is a good point. Because maybe it’s yeah, I never thought of it. That’s what they’re hoping for.

 

Kelly Robinson  20:03

It’s the opposite. Like, it’s not like the quiet quitting, but it’s like, kind of it’s the quiet firing. It’s like, well, I really need you to come back in the office now. Oh, you can’t? Okay. Sorry. We’ll have to.

 

Damon Pistulka  20:17

That is I never thought of it that way. But that’s a way to do it without saying you’re doing it. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, awesome. Awesome. Well, so there’s a lot of a lot of differences, because I look at, you know, this, the talent shortage, had to really drive different or drive change in how you recruit people. So what were some of the things that you saw that you had to do to actually find people that you never had to do before?

 

Kelly Robinson  20:47

Um, definitely never had to do before.

 

Damon Pistulka  20:53

Or didn’t think about a lot. Yeah. So

 

Kelly Robinson  20:55

I, one of the things that I think was on the kind of the, the opposite side that was helpful was we had more time as a team, we used to before this, we used to say, like, we’ll go into, you know, on site help you with interviews and things like that. So that was actually helpful. My business, I’ve been doing this in around this business for like, 17 or 18 years, this type of business is always an on site thing.

Yeah. Recruiters on site, right? So me starting the business a year before COVID hit or six months, whatever. It was one of those questions that I always came up against, will you go, and I really didn’t want to do that. So that was actually super helpful for us to say to them, we can now with with, you know, COVID, and blah, blah, blah, we can actually recruit anywhere. So it doesn’t matter. So it helped them to understand our point. So that was actually really helpful. I know, you’re asking about like challenges.

But, you know, I think it’s just making sure that we understand people really what they want making a really good match, because now we’re open up to not just the best person in a 20 mile radius, we’re looking for the best person. And, you know, can they really work remote? Are they set up at home? Do they have a quiet space? Are the kids at home? You know, like some of these things you can’t really, you can ask.

So there’s a lot of those types of challenges. People think they can work at home sometimes and they can’t. It’s like, you know, have you ever worked at home? I love it. I can do laundry, blah, blah, blah, okay, well, me too. But I don’t think I would say that in an interview, right. But it’s not about doing laundry. So there’s also challenges where I think everyone thinks they can work at home, but you really have to dig in and find out if they can.

And I think the other challenge is something I’ve already mentioned is like some of these companies are cutting corners in hiring because they were an overpaying because they just people were it was just hard, hard, hard, hard to hire. It was even harder for us to just get people in it, you know, depending on comp and then we have a lot of health care clients to struggle. That’s been a real challenge. A real challenge. We have clients paying 40,000 our signup bonuses. Wow. Healthcare. Community Hospital nonprofit.

 

Damon Pistulka  23:48

Yeah. Yeah, I know, we had a we had a client a couple of years ago that sold right at right in the middle of COVID. And it was super hot. And they were a staffing company for health care. And the the amount that traveling nurses were getting paid is great for the traveling nurses. But I couldn’t believe the amounts and and as many as they could hire. Yeah, not just just, you know, it’s not like oh, five, you know, it’s like, how many can you hire? Yeah. Yeah, that was pretty crazy.

 

Kelly Robinson  24:24

We’ll take them all, you know, take

 

Damon Pistulka  24:25

them all. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it’s pretty crazy. So that, you know, it comes back again. We’ve, when you’re taught you said this a couple times, find the best match. Talk about people that can work at home because your, your, your radius of where you can get people as expanded a bit. Have you found that there’s, there are? I mean, do you have to do testing or do you do something different to go, okay, Damon, you’re going to be able to work at home or not, is there really, I mean, how do you really judge that

 

Kelly Robinson  24:59

it’s there really hard. So, if they have been working at home, you can ask them a lot of questions about how do you communicate? What do you do if you’re lost? You know, as your does your team have, like a lot of structure? What does that been?

Like? You know, do you? You know, how do you if you have an issue? How do you get in touch with someone? Do you call them text them? What are you doing? You know? What is your what’s your, you know, what kind of what’s routine? Like? What kind of routine Do you have? You know, because we all we all have gotten into our routine now. Right? We all have a very specific routine that we do. So what is your routine? You want to hear them talk through? How do you stay organized? How do you tell me about the distractions?

Like, tell me about what kind of distractions have come up for you at work? And how do you handle those? And that’s normal, and it’s more acceptable now, which is fine, but you still want to understand how they minimize those types of things. Can you talk about what’s your biggest challenge? You can, you know, ask them? What do you like the most about working at home? What do you like the least? You could change one thing, what would you change?

 

Damon Pistulka  26:19

Great question.

 

Kelly Robinson  26:20

What are your top three things that you would change? Because that will tell you there? That’s a that’s a way to say kind of what’s your weakness without saying it? Right? In a nicer way? Yeah. If you were the office, how did your day differ? You know, what’s different? So you feel

 

Damon Pistulka  26:42

those are great questions, because there’s so much. Yeah, there’s so much to uncover. Just from a cycle just from a personalities not psychological personality standpoint, some people are going to do better at it than others. And and it’s uncovering those people that really are good at it or will thrive at it is is definitely challenging. I’m sure. The

 

Kelly Robinson  27:07

people tell us they can only when they need to get into an office. Yeah, directed. It’s not a lot of people that will be honest like that. But they’ll say I can’t I have to be in an office. Yeah, we don’t have a lot of those. But we’ve heard that it’s like it’s refreshing kind of, you know, they’re being really honest about it.

 

Damon Pistulka  27:29

Yeah. Yeah. So we’ve talked a lot about recruiting. Now, when it comes to hiring, have candidates expected a different way that people hire a different pace of hiring have a

 

27:46

different process and the way that people hire me, because it used to be takes a while you might not get called back for a few weeks, or then you may not get any response, you know, what, what’s really changed in the hiring process.

 

Kelly Robinson  28:00

So a lot of people are moving things more quickly than they should. So they’re okay that people listen, hiring hiring organizations, they can tighten the hiring timeframe, and still follow the process. The issue is when they go off track, right? It’s like they go off track.

Because they’re like, We got to skip this, this, this and then they’re making bad hires. So because you have candidates saying like, Oh, well, I know, this job pays, you know, 130, but I’m interviewing for this job that pays 150. Tomorrow, and I’m, I’m getting an offer by Friday. And so that other job feels like stress to to get them in there and move through and then they cut corners. And that’s happening a lot, especially tech, especially tech.

 

28:57

Yeah. And that and that. First of all, the other offer isn’t eminent may not come at all. And yeah, and I’m sure a lot of people took the bait and actually did well. Okay. Well, we can give you an offer tomorrow for more than what we said we are going to to just to try to keep you away from the other one.

 

Damon Pistulka  29:20

Do you think that this this candidate lead or the the candidate

 

29:32

because the job market was focused on our candidates had the advantage of the job market for a long time? Do you think that it actually drove some good hiring changes, good recruiting changes? And if so, what are some of them that you saw?

 

Kelly Robinson  29:48

Yeah, I mean, I do think in general people were able to be a little bit more flexible and more open to Whoo, two different options where they weren’t before, necessarily, but also just like, so from a hiring managers perspective, you always get the hiring managers that that’s like, I need to see five people. And we all know they don’t need to see five people, if they see one. And they feel like it’s a really good fit, you don’t want to lose that person. While the old way was like, well, we’ll just we’re gonna hold on to that person, we really liked that they’re really great. But let’s keep moving, I need to get my five or my for my three.

And that’s, that’s a, that’s a major mistake, right? Because you’ve also printed a bad experience for that candidate who had a great now they’re not feeling like they had such a great report, because they’re gonna have other interviews. And the recruiter should be honest with them, right?

You’ve got to be transparent and provide feedback and keep them warm and keep them ongoing. So that part, some of the hiring managers have gotten that. So when I say like, shorten, shorten the process. That’s one of the things that not all, but some that’s been, that’s something you can shorten as long as you’re still evaluating them against the job. If you have two people that you’ve met, you really liked them. And they both evaluate kind of against the job really well, then you evaluate them against each other, right?

But otherwise, you don’t just look for three people and go, oh, let’s, let’s see who I like, because you have to make sure first they match the job. So if they match the job, there’s no reason to not move on unless there’s something with their fit. Right. But they wouldn’t match the job. They didn’t have the right fit, because it’s really, you know, has to be the whole the whole case a little.

 

31:50

Yeah, so that’s, that’s actually nice. I think because we got into I mean, there’s some bad habits, right? You hear the stories about people interviewing and never hearing anything back here? Or

 

Damon Pistulka  32:05

like you said, waiting two months and then getting Oh, we’d like to have you come back in again. It’s how do you keep anybody excited? Or or enthusiastic about a position by doing that? Or the company?

 

Kelly Robinson  32:18

Yeah, you lost them? Yeah.

 

Damon Pistulka  32:21

So what are you excited about? Coming up for PKR for hiring and recruiting? What are you what’s what’s exciting you these days with it? Well, so

 

Kelly Robinson  32:31

something that I’m seeing is that companies are RPO has been around for a long time, right recruiting process outsourcing. And that’s what we do as a form of that. It’s been around for a long time. But it was, you know, the best kept secret for a very long time, too. I would say probably until maybe 10 years ago is when it really started, people started hearing and it still was quiet. But I do hear a lot of interest in that now because of the unknown. So there’s, there’s an unknown, and what we do is come in and come out, scale up, scale down. And so that is exciting to a company when they’re like, Okay, it’s predictable.

CFOs love that, right? It’s predictable cost, your classifier goes way down, your expenses, go down your insurance, workman’s comp, all of these things, payroll, all of this, you know, goes down when you outsource, and we bring everything in, and then everything out. And we can if we, if it’s a lot of work, we can bring in maybe two teams or two squads and then come down to one or even halftime.

So it’s the flexibility and that matches the unknown that’s happening in the market where they need to hire people. But they’re not they don’t want to pay the high contingency fees because there’s they’ve what they’ve seen over time is because everyone’s tracking that now is they don’t last, right? So they spend a lot of money. So that’s what I’m excited about is because I I see such a big opportunity in people wanting to outsource now, I’m still doing a lot of education when I’m prospecting and having sales calls.

But they get it it’s makes sense because people have been measuring all of this, you know, the turnover and the retention and we talk about candidate experience. And we talk about Employer Branding now and all of these things that are coming to the forefront that you know they’re late, they’re late to the game, but people are starting to climb onto that. That’s exciting because that’s what we do. Like that’s where we’re fit right you know, we fit

 

Damon Pistulka  34:57

Yeah, and you you mentioned you had been able to write so As with the hiring needs, I think is really cool up and down. And then the other thing that you discussed briefly that I think is really important, when you outsource your outsource with experts in doing that, and so many times, like marketing or several other things in business, it’s just kind of, oh, you know, Damon’s gonna do it, because that’s he’s gonna do the, he’s doing these other things, he’s gonna do the hiring too. And it just can’t be that way anymore because of the special specialized skills, specialized tools and the type of approach it takes.

 

Kelly Robinson  35:42

But not only because of that, really, a hiring manager has a job, like so you know, them trying to recruit to it’s like taking on another job. Yeah, so, so yes, they don’t have the skill set, but they don’t have the time, their job is going to suffer, right. And so someone at the top should think these people should not be spending their time in recruiting. It’s just not it’s, it’s not a good use of time or money.

They should be doing what they do best. Whatever they’re hired for whatever their job is, that’s what they do best. So they should leave that to the experts. And that’s it, you know, the outsource? Yes. Like, there’s tools and things like that, and all kinds of things that they that recruiters need to, they need to learn that a hiring manager is not going to spend time on but most of the most of the things that the internal recruiting teams or hiring team to do is they post and they’re just praying, right posts and posts and right.

They’re just hoping people are coming in. And so they’re getting the best of whatever’s come in, which is not always the best, depending on you know, if you if you have a big name, you’re gonna get a lot of applicants, and they’re not going to match. So you know, you have to be, you have to be really kind of diligent and making sure you have the right people that can streamline that process and create efficiency and make it as effective as possible. And it’s a lot that’s within the interval commuters what they’re doing. Yeah, yeah.

 

Damon Pistulka  37:29

It’s awesome. What’s that?

 

Kelly Robinson  37:33

Excuse me? Hunting and sourcing? Yeah, we’re not we don’t do a lot of we will put posts out there because that’s what you do. But because it’s a no brainer, right? If someone really good, that’s great. Someone really good sees it. As an added bonus. It’s marketing, right? And we’re branding and things like that. It’s great. It’s great for our image and our clients. But now we go out and hunt and source

 

Damon Pistulka  37:59

huntin stores like that. I like that. Because I mean, it’s, Hey, if you want to find if you want to find the best place I I think that’s the way to the hire people. I mean, if you if you want to go if you say boom, where would they work? Where are the best person work? And why don’t I go talk to them and see if they want to come here?

 

Kelly Robinson  38:17

Yeah. Yeah, you go find them? Yeah, we can get we have done this so many times, right. So we can pull this out of our clients. And we can create that kind of profiles. Like it’s kind of like sales, but it’s not. But it’s kind of like, you got to figure out what the profile is.

And then create, you know that what is the target market for that person? Where are they living? Where do they spend their time online? Not everyone. LinkedIn is a huge tool for us. But it is not the only one. There’s sometimes there are physicians that we’re not going to find people on LinkedIn. Nurses, like they’re not on LinkedIn. Right? We hunt that we dig them up. We do a lot of that.

 

Damon Pistulka  38:58

Yeah. Oh, awesome stuff. Kelly. Well, if people want to talk to PKR, talk to you about recruiting and and retained recruiting for their company wars, the best place to get a hold of you.

 

Kelly Robinson  39:13

They can find me on LinkedIn. That’s That’s my baby, right. And that’s something I’m there daily, constantly. And they can also go to our website, but they have to forgive it because we’re getting ready to launch our new one, but it’s PK recruiting.com.

 

Damon Pistulka  39:31

All right, very good. Well, Kelly, thanks

so much for being here today. Really appreciate it. I want to say thanks to everyone that was listening that commented we got Curtis and Michelle Ira Marty, Mary Jane and we had Iran there again and Michelle just thanks so much for the for the comments and and stopping by and listen to us they mark. Marcia, as thanks so much for being here today. We’ll be back again later this week. Thanks again Kelly

 

Kelly Robinson  40:01

thanks Damon hang out for a

 

Damon Pistulka  40:03

moment we’ll talk okay

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