Family Business Crisis Intervention

In this, The Faces of Business, Jane Eigner Mintz, Founder, Jane Mintz Consultancy, talks about family business crisis intervention and how you can navigate and address crisis situations within family businesses.

In this, The Faces of Business, Jane Eigner Mintz, Founder, Jane Mintz Consultancy, talks about family business crisis intervention and how you can navigate and address crisis situations within family businesses.

Jane is an experienced and dedicated private pay, “concierge clinical strategist and crisis intervention specialist.” With a focus on assisting individuals and families grappling with addictive illness, mental health crises, and various life concerns, Jane offers tailored guidance and customized support. Jane skillfully helps people navigate challenging situations, empowering them to embrace transformative change and discover a new path in life.

Jane has dedicated herself to assisting individuals and families in crisis, ensuring that they find the support they need to overcome challenges. With her wide range of skills and a commitment to making a positive difference, Jane helps her clients find the path towards a more fulfilling life.

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Damon warmly welcomes Jane and introduces her as an experienced concierge, clinical strategist, and crisis intervention specialist. He begins by discussing Jane’s background and the journey that evolved her into a crisis intervention specialist and a concierge clinical strategist.

Jane, a licensed professional counselor (LPC) with an entrepreneurial spirit, shares her diverse background with the audience. Having been involved in industries like LPGA and microcomputers, Jane contemplated her role in the counseling field. Inspired by her father’s work as an eye surgeon and her ability to regulate emotions and work under pressure, she became fascinated with crisis intervention. Jane founded Real Life Intervention Solutions, focusing on addiction, mental health, and lifestyle crises.

Over time, she transitioned into a consultancy, assisting high-net-worth individuals and families facing communication, wealth management, trusts, estate planning, and succession challenges. Jane emphasizes the criticality of maintaining family system integrity and the profound impact when one element becomes disconnected. Despite the complexity of her work, she finds immense joy and fulfillment in her profession.

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Damon expresses his excitement about Jane’s extensive experience. He suggests delving into a few topics, starting with the inspiration behind Jane’s book on the field model of intervention.

The guest reveals that she recognized a need within the intervention industry as many professionals lacked clinical knowledge and relied solely on 12-step approaches, causing “a good heap of trauma.” She wrote the field intervention model in 2009 (revised in 2013) to address this. The book aims to provide non-clinicians with a deeper understanding of clinical issues in crises, helping them grasp underlying factors and determine their scope of practice. With ethical intervention, Jane wants to promote an informed approach and discourage unsupported claims to families in crisis.

To Jane, underlying pain and trauma may contribute to crisis situations. She highlights the need to approach each individual with empathy and acknowledges the presence of various diagnoses and challenges. She mentions that intervention work requires a diverse set of strategies and techniques tailored to each unique situation. She talks about the complexity and artistry involved in clinical interventions, noting her field’s interesting and fulfilling nature.

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Damon acknowledges the unique challenges in Jane’s field, especially when it comes to family businesses, generational wealth, and high-level corporate executives.

Jane talks about legal consequences and wreckage that can occur in her field of work. She focuses on demographic because she can relate to them and has the necessary resources to serve them.

Damon expresses his interest in hearing about Jane’s various situations in her work, as she mentions dealing with thousands of different scenarios.

In response, Jane mentions a few recent cases she has been working on. One involves a wealthy 60-year-old man who has been financially manipulating and abusing his elderly mother. Another case involves a Midwest family whose daughter has gone missing with her two-year-old child. There’s also the story of a young girl who left college with a manipulative partner and now lives in seclusion, dressed in Amish clothing, with limited contact with her family. Lastly, Jane refers to a complex situation involving a high-net-worth family with multiple businesses and the challenge of determining the best course of action for their future. She advises being tenacious, curious, and resilient in finding solutions for these complicated mental health and addiction cases, which can span across different countries. “I’ve stayed in this for 23 years,” the guest remarks.

Damon, impressed, believes it’s inspiring to witness individuals who were initially struggling but turned their lives around with the help of the right resources and supportive family interventions.

On Damon’s request, Jane shares another success story about a 3G family system that had experienced severe trauma and had become divided. With Jane’s guidance and working alongside fiduciaries and advisors, the family was able to rebuild their relationships and reconnect. They even produced a five-star film about the success of their company and are now thriving both financially and emotionally.

Damon asks Jane if she can sense when she enters certain situations that she won’t be able to help the people involved due to specific personalities or dynamics.

Jane says that early in her career, she was frequently referred to clients who were challenging to work with. She developed a fondness for such individuals and became known as someone who could handle them effectively. Jane appreciates directness and guides her clients accordingly. If she senses a lack of insight that would impact the case, she either declines to take it or, in some cases, terminates her work with the family altogether. She has had instances where she has fired multiple families.

In Jane’s view, there needs to be a sense of energetic change or shift to have a successful therapeutic relationship with an individual. People are highly intuitive and energetically inclined, and they can sense when a positive transformation occurs.

Similarly, the guest addresses how an abusive individual within a corporate system can affect the work culture, leading to widespread misery and frustration among employees. She talks about situations where the boss’s son, often called ‘Junior’ (Jr.), engages in irresponsible behavior such as excessive drinking and neglecting work responsibilities.

Jane has learned that people are a business’s most valuable resource. She discusses the negative impact that individuals struggling with addiction or mental health issues can have on the workplace, causing havoc and creating a hostile environment. She urges individuals and businesses to take responsibility and intervene to prevent further harm.

Damon highlights that tragic events, such as suicides, can happen unexpectedly and affect people from all walks of life. He emphasizes the shocking nature of these incidents and the need to address mental health issues proactively to prevent such tragedies from occurring.

Jane expresses her skepticism about the effectiveness of HR departments in dealing with mental health issues in the workplace. She believes most HR departments are ill-equipped for such situations and may have other priorities or limitations. There is a need to find the right treatment plan and entry point to address these issues, whether through a respectful conversation or a more assertive intervention. She acknowledges the importance of using strategic and artistic methods to engage individuals and create meaningful impact.

The host agrees with Jane that their actions can result in millions or even billions of dollars in damages.

Jane adds that true willingness involves a spiritual leap of faith and a conscious choice to do things differently. “So, nothing really bad happens,” the guest asserts. Similarly, insight is crucial for understanding the underlying reasons for destructive behaviors and taking responsibility for change. Time is not merely a matter of clock-watching but immersing oneself in the discovery process and embracing the wonders of life.

As the show concludes, Jane reflects on the miraculous nature of people’s ability to survive and thrive despite facing challenges. She shares her own experience of recovery and how it has empowered her to help others. Being of service to others becomes a powerful tool for a person’s growth and well-being.

The conversation comes to a close with Damon thanking Jane for her time.

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48:14

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

people, family, jane, good, business, crisis, situations, intervention, bad, years, happen, field, learned, demographic, serve, treatment, clinical, clinicians, insight, person

SPEAKERS

Damon Pistulka, Jane Mintz

 

Damon Pistulka  00:01

All right, everyone, welcome once again to the faces of business. And as usual, I did not have the video screens lined up right but now I do. I am Damon Pistulka Your host for our show today and I’m excited because we have Jane Manse with us here today from Jane men’s consultancy. And Jane is a I’m gonna say this is a lot of words, concierge, clinical strategist and crisis intervention specialist. Jane, welcome.

 

Jane Mintz  00:33

Thanks, Damon. So great to be with you. Yeah, I’m really

 

Damon Pistulka  00:37

excited to talk to you. Yeah. Because I think there’s, there’s a lot of people that will be very interested in what you do once we get going here. And just just happy to see see what we can uncover. So let’s start back aways here. Jane, let’s talk about your background in what, you know, how does someone how did you evolve into being a crisis intervention specialist and a concierge clinical strategist?

 

Jane Mintz  01:08

Well, it’s it’s I’m going to try to boil it down to something interesting for your audience. But what what I am a licensed clinician, so I’m a my license is an LPC which is a licensed professional counselor. And from there just like any subspecialty, imagine that you’re in medicine, you’re in medical school, and you’ll get your basic education. And then as you start to get towards graduation point, you start to look at what specialties you might want to break out into.

Well, I’ve been an entrepreneur my whole life. Prior to this work. I was in the LPGA. And prior to that I was in the microcomputer industry, and I had my own computer brokerage firm. So I’m entrepreneurial by nature. So I looked at this field of counseling and said, Really, where do I fit in this because I am not I don’t have the temperament to be an in office therapist.

I really didn’t want to work in an institution, you know, and I started chipping away at all these things. And I thought, Well, wait a second, what did I just spend all? No, but what I did is I looked I looked because my father it was a an eye surgeon. And from the time I was a little girl, he would take me on emergencies into the emergency room into the operating room was just a different day back then.

But what I learned from that was how to self regulate my emotions. And really being able to compartmentalize, be hyper focused at the task at hand, work under pressure, or what watch my dad will come to pressure. And so as the you know, the the whole concept of crisis became very interesting to me, and I’m very well suited for that. So that’s where, you know, at that stage intervention was just percolating as an industry you know, there was the TV show, and that was it.

And I but I was intrigued with the prospect of walking you know, being in invited into a family that was an abject crisis as a result of loving somebody that was being you know, completely sucked under by addiction and mental health and lifestyle and all these things are just watching that family wreckage. I immediately thought you know, family systems, Small Business Systems corporate systems crisis, as it relates to my field, which is addiction, mental health and lifestyle that became that was the birth of my my first company real life intervention solutions.

And so all these many years later flipped many chapters down the way I evolved it, I’ve evolved into a consultancy, and today I work with high net or ultra high net worth family systems, individuals generational, you know, wealth issues, that are in crisis, as a result of lack of communication, distributions, setting up trusts, estate planning, succession planning, all of it, because you’ve got this cast of characters called a family. Yeah, you know, and it can be a work family, it can be otherwise but that is enormously challenged.

When one link in that system is completely unlinked. I mean, it’s like, it can be epically bad and it can be PR bad it can be life threatening bad it can be, you know, Stock Exchange bad that’s, you know, epic. So that’s how I evolved into it. And, you know, one case led to nine led to, you know, I’m probably in the somewhere in the 1000s at this point. But I love it, and this is where I am and I work in that space. So, that was a big question. I hope I He answered it for you.

 

Damon Pistulka  05:01

This this is cool. This is cool, because, yeah, you’ve been you’ve been at this a while. So let’s cover a couple things. So first of all, you you wrote a book a while back, I believe how the field model of intervention what what kind of inspired you to write a book about intervention?

 

Jane Mintz  05:19

Well, you know, it that’s, that’s an interesting question to the field model of intervention was never published, I could have self published or done other things with it. But I, when I looked into the industry after coming out of really an intense academia, you know, clinical, all that training. And I saw that other people like me, we’re not licensed, we’re not very clinically savvy, they were 12 Step savvy, they knew how to sort of bottom line somebody into treatment, crack them over their knees, strapped into the hood of the car. And after treatment, they go, and I saw a lot. So a lot more trauma being foisted on people.

While ultimately they got health, many people don’t get over the resentment. And so and so when you look at the population of people that are in crisis, if you need somebody to come in, it’s bad. I mean, it’s bad. But if you don’t have any clinical training, you’re not prepared for what you see on the other end.

And, you know, a speak and and if you don’t do this, we’re going to do that to you. If you don’t do this, we’re going to take this away from you. If you don’t do this, we’re going to XYZ and that was really the that wasn’t a very loving way to get somebody into treatment, or care of some sort. Yeah, care. Yeah. So what I decided to do was to train interventionists in clinical issues as they pertain to this population in crisis.

And so the field model of intervention, which I wrote in 2009, and then redrafted in 2013, became a way for non clinicians to get a really good handle on why some of these clients are in crisis. What’s behind it, what’s the motivating force, and most importantly, is to give them some idea if they’re in their scope, or out of their scope. Anybody that is, it’s a personal, very personally and ethically offensive to me, when somebody comes in and tells a family that they can do something, and they have no foundation for that.

So I tried to help. Many, many people actually understand what’s underneath crisis, what’s underneath the meltdown, what’s underneath the disintegration, the de you know, the compensation of this individual. So I helped to create a little bit more informed lay environment out there, I still would recommend that people work with clinicians that are that have many, many years in crisis in the field. And, you know, we can talk about that, too. But that was a good question, Damon?

 

Damon Pistulka  08:13

Well, it’s interesting you say that, because I hadn’t thought thought about that. Before. That, you know, when when you find a family member in crisis, that that whole thing is, how do we get them to the treatment they need? And how do we do it in a loving manner, rather than, like you said, and I’ve heard a lot of this is like, Hey, you’re, you’re out of this family unit, if you don’t get straight, say, we’re shipping you off to treatment someplace, or, or you’re gonna get this kind of help, or, you know, you’re no longer in the business. But that’s not a loving way to do it.

 

Jane Mintz  08:51

Well, you know, sometimes it’s, it’s important to do a whole lot of straight talk with people regarding their behavior. And I’m all for that. I’m all for saying, Look, I understand that you think this, but let us reflect back to you what the impact of your behavior is on your business, on your marriage, on your children, on your finances, on your legacy, on your license. It goes on and on. And that’s where you run into diagnostically complicated people. Because I’m a clinician, obviously, I do everything by assessment.

So when somebody calls me they have to kind of fill out so very easy. You know, I’ve made it easy, but for me, I can almost profile who I’m going to be meeting one day. Just by what how this my assessments are set up. That prepares me because if you if you look at the reasons people come into crisis, which is what I taught most of most people there’s a good heap of trauma involved, you know, something happened.

And something tipped the scales for people to go from, you know, daily social drinkers that may over serve themselves once or twice a night while they’re watching succession. Right? Yeah, to absolutely not being able to control the amount. And then you see lack of empathy, you see, driving incidents, you see hiding, I’m giving you this most simplistic things, but behind that is pain is psychic pain.

So what is it that this person is suffering from. And if you can get to the underneath that, you have a better way to reach somebody from an empathetic point of view. Now, if you’re dealing with somebody that’s in spurts in my demographic, I would say, you know, 90 plus percent of the people that I work with have some form of narcissism, right? And that’s on a continuum. And most successful people can be quite narcissistic, if not be narcissists.

But we see lots of other diagnoses, we see you know, mood disorders, we see financial gambling disorders, sex addictions, a lot of sexual acting out a variety of different substances, when you start mixing those with individuals that have had a whole lifelong story of struggles, and maybe even some private struggles that they’ve never shared with anybody, you sprinkle a healthy dose of life on top of that, and lots of pressure, and things happen. So that’s just that’s just looking at the evolution of what one person might be experiencing. But back to the point is, you can’t be a one trick pony.

Yeah, if you don’t understand what borderline personality traits look like, versus PTS Complex PTSD traits, and what reactive personality Pat reactive personalities are likely to do when they’re put in a pressure cooker cooker, you may just choose to, to try a different strategy other than piling on, you know, and surprising people in all sorts of that. Now, if you there’s, there are a lot of people that can disappear pretty quickly. So you know, it’s just what is the situation? What do we need to do?

What’s the opening that we need? What’s the messaging? And then we’ve got to get in front of people. So sometimes it is a little bit creative. But that’s just like, you know, seriously demon. That is, it’s like the most almost everybody in some form that comes into my practice needs to be redirected. Right. So when I look at the term intervention, I look at it as any means methods or strategies that help people make change a change. Right?

So I don’t look at it as a technique that’s like, that’s that, that there’s a, the true intervention. clinical intervention is an art. It’s really an art. And so, you know, it’s been an exciting career, I’ve been able to give back a ton to my, to the world, and no one has given me is four times, you know, no, it’s just to be a part to be in the solution in a dire situation with very complex circumstances. You know, is it is a, it’s an honor and a privilege to be able to serve on that level. And I have a robust, you know, my networks run wide and deep.

So for people that have a daughter that’s on an alcoholic Bender, or is running from a boyfriend, and at I have security teams all over the world, you know, there’s no, there’s really, all people have to do is just say, you know, just explain what the problem is. Yeah. And, and I feel pretty comfortable that my ethics will say, Oh, man, that’s just that’s not in my scope, but I can refer you on Yeah, but I have a big enough basket that and a lot of a lot of experience. So there’s not a whole lot I can handle but it’s just it’s just an interesting field.

 

Damon Pistulka  14:40

But it’s no doubt no doubt it’s an interesting field because it’s like it’s like you you deal with a different a different situation for sure. And, and you have unique challenges when you’re looking at family businesses generational wealth situations. or high level corporate executives, right?

Who may have, you know, whatever have whatever kind of challenges, just just because it is different because there’s, you know, in walking around on the street normally you don’t have to worry about the impact of I drank too much. And I fell down or I drank too much in my I wrecked my car, something like that. What, but on were some people that is to many, many, many million dollar ins. Oh,

 

Jane Mintz  15:29

absolutely. And, and the legal consequences can be phenomenal. The wreckage, you know, I think that people say, Well, you know, why don’t you you know, what you do is so special. Jane, why don’t you just work with the general population? And, you know, part of it is that I relate to this demographic quite well.

I think you have to be believable in that space. And the truth is, you know, when I tried to spread the love among all demographics, it’s not possible because my resources are more in short, private insurance based in cash pay based. So it is enormously frustrating to talk to a lovely family that just does not have the wherewithal to hire me or to fit into that lane. I’m sort of that’s my lane.

 

Damon Pistulka  16:21

Yeah, well, you know, you know, you know, where you fit the best and, and that’s where you stay. Because you provide that service that that they need, right?

Different. It’s, it’s Yeah, yeah, like, yeah, it’s like someone that someone that drives this kind of brand of automotive and someone drives with much different brand of automotive, they need different different kinds of people working on them, that’s for sure. And yeah, technical skills and those things, right. So it’s, it’s, it’s interesting to me, just to if we could hear some of the situations that because you said 1000s of situations, some what just give us an idea of some of the situations that you’re called upon to to talk to people about or help people with?

 

Jane Mintz  17:10

Wow, that’s a wide open question. But I’ll just talk to you about what happened yesterday at my desk. So I’m working on several cases right now. One, I have a family system where there’s a 60 year old male, so you know, high net worth family system, 60 year old male that has not worked in 10 years, and is now abusing the grandmother, his mother. And that working, manipulating her to give him money. And it’s a it’s a mental health case, but it’s an elder abuse case, as well.

So what started out with looking at just the dynamic of what can we do to help this guy get on his feet? What can we do to help shore him up? You know, the answer is we start out with a guy like that with a full neuro psych workup.

And I want to know what’s going on before I even make a move, to talk to the family about what this is and what kind of support we need and you know, kind of treatment plan. But then, as the case evolved, we learned that he was sneaking into his mom’s assisted living. And she was given giving him all of her meals. So she was starving. She was being mentally and emotionally abused. She was being pilfered. He was putting her on the phone with helpdesk to change paths. I mean, all of that. So it went from gee, how can we help Gilbert to Holy crow? We’ve got a big problem here. Yeah, so that’s one case.

Another case is a Midwest family that again, of means that is daughter a had some kind of break, and picked up her two year old child and has been on the lam for two years. Wow. And this dad is beside himself, because there is she is in the wind, so I have my security team on that one. Another one. Young girl went to a big school in Ohio, okay. And her freshman year met a guy and he he’s started grooming her, and the two of them left school and moved up north. And he now has her dressed in Amish clothing.

They’re working 24/7 And little eBay shop, they collect stuff off the I mean, it’s, it’s unbelievable. And she is now guarded by three dogs, and has an infant, you know, three, two German shepherds in a Great Dane and live in a one bedroom apartment and has cut off all communication with her family. And then the last one I’ll just give you that’s, I’ve more, but I’ll give you one, a new inquiry around a G five family structure.

So I mean, a one through five G, you know, G family structure. And where there were several pools of different businesses that all earn billions. And it’s now come down to two people. And one is entirely suited to take over and manage the foundations and do this and that, and the other one is a hot mess. And so what do we do now? And how do we work that out? And so that because they all have kids, and they have, it’s just a whole thing? And you know what, we make it happen? We really make it happen. Yeah, you know, it’s about being tenacious and being curious, being resilient. When things don’t work.

What do you do? You know, we just shift, right. And so I work on all sorts of, you know, complicated mental health stories. And I work with a lot of addiction as well. A lot of addiction, or, let’s just call it substance misuse people that are trying to medicate, and that have created a whole nother problem for themselves. So it just, it gets bigger. And, you know, I’ve cases in Switzerland and this and that, but I work with families all over the world. And I can do most of it from here, but I will travel

 

Damon Pistulka  21:56

as well. Yeah, yeah. Wow. That’s something. Yeah, let’s jump in. Because

 

Jane Mintz  22:00

yesterday. Yeah, that was yesterday.

 

Damon Pistulka  22:05

Go. So let’s talk about, because we’re talking about the problems you see, but let’s talk about some of the success stories. Because I think that, you know, one of the things that that really always interests me and fills my heart with good is when we see someone that you know, is not doing so well, but has done what they needed to do. Because you know, you’ve you’ve helped find the right resources, get the family around in the right way. And you go, this was this, this was this person. And now this is this person. Yeah.

 

Jane Mintz  22:43

I have. You know, I’m happy to report that I have so many happy stories. Yeah. And a few clunkers by others. Oh, yeah. But I’ll give you a family system. It’s a 3g family system, one, two, and three G. And they had blown apart. And what we learned was there was severe trauma inflicted on one of the daughters, she was raped by a neighbor. She then had an incident with her brother that was considered sexual. Boundary violations to be sure, as they were growing up.

And now this the family system working with fantastic fiduciaries, and advisors, had to put in a full halt because the children weren’t talking to each other. And it was a family business. And each of the children were equally, you know, had equal parts ownership. Really bad situation. So instead of, you know, going in there, oh, wait, I won’t tell you about that. Over six months, I would go down for long weekends, and I would work with this family.

And as a result today, they were able to produce a five star film on the success of this company for a very big anniversary. All the siblings are reconnected, back in the fold together. We’re all on this video together, talking about the company and laughing with what I mean the growth, the joy, the risks they took. They cannot get over where they were a year ago, or a year and a half ago. And they’re they’re intact financially. All the kids are you know, it’s like it was a Christmas miracle.

We did a lot of good work. So that’s but you see a lot of successes, particularly when there was substances. When you start to make substance with mental health, severe mental health. You’re the prognosis gets a little more challenging. But there’s lots of people that, you know, we’re cross addicted to many substances and behaviors, that we’re able to kind of look the beast in the mirror, and figure out a new way of doing things. And I have hundreds of stories like that.

So it really almost doesn’t matter how bad it is. It’s amazing how resilient humans are, and how resilient families are, if you really instruct them, teach them, coach them, counsel them into learning a different way of communicating with one another. And that’s where the success of the cases come from, is that the rebuilding of the foundation? of the communication system? Because it is, you know, pretty upside down.

 

Damon Pistulka  25:48

Wow. Wow. So when you when you come into these situations? Can you sense I mean, you’ve done slot right. So yeah, walk into these situations, can you say? Can you sense that? I’m not going to be able to help these people. Just because of a, b, and c personalities here? Have you been able to do that over time? Where you just go? Yeah, this isn’t gonna work.

 

Jane Mintz  26:19

Well, I kind of cut my teeth on those people. Because that’s all I was getting referred early in my career. Yeah, yeah. And then those types of folks had like the letter J in printed on their forehead, people just say, Oh, my God, just send send that to j. So I happen to really like those people. Okay. And if, you know, I’m a, I’m a no nonsense broad. Okay.

So when you’re, when you’re in a consultation with me, I love you to death, but I’m also going to guide you. And we’re going to really talk a lot about what’s work, what’s working and what’s not. And if I can’t see any level of insight that’s going to positively influence the case, then I will not take it because I know that I’m going to be inflicting harm on someone. So I simply won’t take a case and or I will fire a family. Yeah. And I’ve done that. I’ve fired many families.

 

Damon Pistulka  27:17

Yeah. I mean, because you said it. You have to instruct and coach and all these other things. But yeah, in the end, yeah, it is the family making the changes. And if that’s right, they don’t hold up their end of the bargain, nothing changes,

 

Jane Mintz  27:33

right. And you really can’t have a clean narrative with an individual. Unless they can, they can sense on an energetic level, that change is afoot. You know, people are very energetically inclined and very intuitive. But so when when there’s a shift, the first person that knows it is the affected individual, because they’re dealing on such a high energetic level, because there are other resources aren’t available to them.

They’re not thinking clearly they’re not, you know, they’re attaching stories to things that aren’t there. Or, you know, it just goes on and on. So that’s why, when you asked me that question about the field model, I loved it, because this shows exactly why clinical expertise in the demographic you serve, right. And for the PA, you know, that you have to you have to know what you’re doing. And so, there you go.

 

Damon Pistulka  28:35

That’s awesome. That’s awesome. Because, I mean, it is I mean, because literally, you you don’t a lot of times you won’t read about this, a lot of times you won’t hear about this, because a lot of this stuff just just goes down the tubes, and no one really knows. Right? And someone dies, someone you know, family falls apart, whatever it is. But, you know, this is a lot more common than people realize. I think,

 

Jane Mintz  29:05

well, you know, it’s interesting since I started really working collegially with the financial industry. It has changed so many lives. And my biggest referral source are you is you all because you see it in everything you do. Lawyers see it. Estate planners see it. Single Family Offices, multifamily offices, financial consultants, they know dysfunction when they see it because they can they can track it. And they’re all like, Oh no, what are we going to do now?

And since I have such good rapport, with so many people in your field, the power of what we can do together is extraordinary, is extending literally changed generation You know, family issues, simply by intervening? And what I mean is shifting the dynamic and moving towards health. And it’s, it really is miraculous when you get that kind of buy in. And so that’s why I’ve stayed in this for 23 years.

 

Damon Pistulka  30:20

Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s cool to be able to talk to someone with your experience level in, in helping these high net family unit. Businesses do this, because it’s, it is not only impacts the family, the family unit, their generational wealth, but typically, these people are tied to large businesses that that affect 1000s of other people that rely on them rely on those businesses, right basis for their livelihood, their, their, their income, their careers. And they can go down the toilet with one person.

 

Jane Mintz  31:04

Well think about, think about how much of the how much abuse one person can heap on a corporate system. Yeah. And make the work culture. Impossible. Yeah. And people are truly miserable. And people go home crying, and people are frustrated. And people aren’t this and that I mean, and it’s the boss’s son. Yeah. It’s Jr. Number two, and Jr is off at the club, plays around a golf. Six drinks later, you know, gets up in the mornings hung over has to swing into the bar at 1030. You know, I mean, it happens all the time, all the time.

 

Damon Pistulka  31:52

And you talked about how that degrades of business? Because in a large business, that people are going to say, and this is the person who’s going to take over the business, why the hell I want to be

 

Jane Mintz  32:02

in a business knows that, that it’s, its most precious resources are its people. Yes. And so people that are addicted or in mental health crisis are not nice people. They’re just not. They’re either not around, they’re wreaking havoc, either chipping away at the edges, or they’re right in the middle, throwing flame, you know, flames. And people go, there’s nothing we can do, because it’s the boss’s son, and he won’t do anything about it. So we’re just meant to suffer?

Well, that’s, first of all, how do you reconnect those people back to? You know, it’s like, it’s, you’re losing so much. Yes. And, and a lot of people in the workplace, and this was very common many years ago would say, you know, even fiduciaries would say, you know, it’s just not none of my business. You know, I’m here to do the financial planning, I’m here to knock the numbers down. And, and that’s just not true.

And people need to snap out of that. Because, you know, when you don’t act, you are partially responsible for keeping that person sick or longer. And in some way, you are complicit in what happens next. So when somebody goes out, and kills a family of four, or hangs themself in their, in their office bathroom, and you said nothing. That’s on you. So saying nothing anymore is not a human ethic. It’s not even a business ethic. Yeah, right. It’s just avoidant behavior. And so we can’t do that anymore. We just can’t do it. Because we I mean, bad things happen. Oh, yeah. Really bad things happen. Yeah. Yeah, they

 

Damon Pistulka  33:55

I mean, and, and, and, and are happening right now are happening. Yeah, are happening. And they happened to people that you would not think that they would. That’s right. And he’s right. You just wake up and go. Holy heck, Steve. killed himself or so

 

Jane Mintz  34:15

you believe. Right? Yeah. You’ve saved killed himself. Yeah. All right, right. Yeah. Nobody asked Steve, how are you today?

 

Damon Pistulka  34:23

Yeah, yeah, it happens. And then and they just the standing, staying alongside or just allowing it to happen without trying to, to, to help someone or say something anymore. It’s just not acceptable.

 

Jane Mintz  34:37

It’s not, you know, and at the minimum, it’s very hard to figure out how to do that. You know, and it can get very messy so hopefully, and I don’t really have I wish I had faith in HR departments. I am sorry. I just think they’re not equipped for it well, and a lot of them a lot of them have alignments. than this and that, and I, you know, they’re not I mean, they may be clinicians, but they’re not in the field.

And I hate to impugn that. But if there are good HR departments that maybe somebody will pick up on something, but then that takes a very, very kind of wrote rollout. And most bigs are not going to allow that. Right. So it’s going to, it’s, we have to figure out what the best entry point is, what the most respectful entry point is, or what the entry point is to hit somebody over the head with a mallet, because they have to be stopped.

You know, and I’m speaking metaphorically, I have a flair for the dramatic, but but but these are, these are mental word pictures. That means so much, and I do speak in word pictures. I’m, I know, it’s an unusual way of speaking. But, you know, it really is that sometimes people need a massive wake up call. And, and or, you know, we have to just look at what the right way to have the conversation as and that’s where the art and the strategy come in.

 

Damon Pistulka  36:04

Yeah, well, definitely. I mean, because what you’re saying that these people could be in, in a multi 100 million dollar business and they could be in billions, and billions it could be and they can be they can be inflicting millions and hundreds of millions of damage every single week month that they’re they’re messing with this the way they are living the way they are

 

Jane Mintz  36:28

just are neglecting it, you know, that’s the right is you see people just step out, and they think they built a machine that runs on its own. And then people start panicking because the business starts sliding sideways. And and it’s you need leadership. You need people that enjoy working together that have the you know, it all it’s a mind body spirit thing. I know, it sounds weird for like a corporate thing, but it is true. You miss any one of those components and you’re in trouble.

 

Damon Pistulka  37:01

Yeah, it is. Well, in high performing. Yes. Companies you have to be it has to be your all in Yeah, it can’t be can’t be I’m just showing up. I’m giving you what I got. It’s I gotta give you my mind, body and spirit if you really want to do it. Right. Yeah. And and that’s, that’s what they need. And and it’s, you just can’t do that when you have a leader that is, you know, in a bad point.

 

Jane Mintz  37:27

Absolutely. Absolutely.

 

Damon Pistulka  37:30

Awesome. Awesome. So the, how you answered a couple of the questions I had, I was going to ask about the keys as sexual to successful recoveries. But let’s talk about that for a moment. I think you’ve answered it a bit. But this this what

 

Jane Mintz  37:48

I do have some more to sprinkle on that. I don’t really go like, Okay, this is a thing of my I speak about this all the time. Good is the three keys to wellness, in my opinion, three keys

 

Damon Pistulka  37:59

of wellness

 

Jane Mintz  38:00

right, are incite, willingness and time. Okay, so let’s start with willingness there is, there are people that appear to be willing, but aren’t all in, there are people that will be willing in order to placate a room of people that are looking at them saying, you know, you gotta like get this together, right.

But true willingness is a spiritual leap of faith is the belief that if I do something different, even though that I have no safety net underneath me, I believe that I am doing the next right thing, and that I have the support to do it. So willingness really is a spiritual departure from all the things you’ve done in the past, right? And it’s it’s a conscious, it’s a willingness, it’s a it’s a, you make a choice, right.

So then after that comes insight, and this is where we really see the clinical piece of it. Insight is so important because insight driven wellness is sustainable wellness. It’s not just about stopping, you know, cocaine or or, you know, sexual acting out or, or, you know, serial infidelity. It’s about understanding why you’re driven into these behaviors, understanding the impact that the behaviors have on the people and the things that you love the most, you care deeply about the most.

And taking full responsibility for yourself and saying, Aha, I get it. And being able to walk that way. versus the other way. It’s, I get it. I am no longer willing to engage in this behavior. I understand the impact it has had, and I’m no longer willing to be to perpetrate that on people and myself, right? And then time, so so if you are a if you have a personality disorder, one of the hallmark features of a personality disorder would be borderline narcissistic personality, antisocial personality.

You know, it goes on and on. If you if you don’t have insight, and that’s what these people likely don’t have, you really can’t get well, because you can’t make that internal course correction. It’s all very externalized. So you’ll see a lot of people saying, well, if only my work environment was more inclusive, If only my work environment, if only I was valued for my work, I wouldn’t have to feel this resentful towards my boss who passes me you know, I’m just giving you very generous.

So if you don’t have insight, you’re probably not going to get really well. Okay, that’s the truth of it. And then here’s the third part time, everybody looks at their watch and thinks that there’s no time. It’s living it, right. So when people say, Well, I’ll only do this for 30 days, or I’ll do I’ll go to 90 meetings in 90 days. I’m just talking addiction speak. That’s clock watching. That’s not time. Yeah, time is to immerse yourself in the wonder of the discovery process of being able to have things happen.

And being able to say, Geez, you know, that was a surprise. But understanding what the lesson is, right? Time isn’t about on putting time into this. So A plus B equals C, and when I hit the C Mark, I’m done. That is not the way it’s about embracing the wonders of the world, and only through lifting manmade constructs of time off of that, can you truly live gratefully and joyfully, right in a very connected way. So that those are three buckets. And if people can fall in those buckets. It’s unbelievable. what’s around the corner.

I’m a living example of that. Living example, alcohol cocaine addict, 23 years, it’ll be 24, this summer, of just building on things that I I considered to be successful, non successful. And then I recognized how much judgment I was putting on, it’s just information. So nothing really bad happens. Right? It’s your perception of it. And what you know what I’m saying, like we put these, we wrap these hard stories around things, and we have such anyway, that those are the three things. So I’m rambling a little bit.

 

Damon Pistulka  43:01

That’s awesome listening to you. It’s awesome listening.

 

Jane Mintz  43:05

I’m a bouncing ball anyway, but people usually get what I’m talking about. But but if you think about that, it’s really a miracle how many people not only survive, but thrive, and go and do good like I did. You know, we when you recover for something that’s trying to kill you.

And you can help other people. That’s the tool that’s the vehicle for getting well being of service to others in some capacity. So now you are here to serve, not to be served. And we all know that giving is a heck of a lot better than getting and much more rewarding. And it connects you to your to your fellow people. Yeah. Yeah. My goodness, I’m pontificating this evening.

 

Damon Pistulka  43:57

It’s awesome, though. It’s awesome. It’s awesome. Because, you know, people that listen to me long enough to realize that, that I go off on that quite a bit. And as far as, you know, most of us are hung up simply because we don’t experience the wonder that’s around us every single moment of every single day. That’s right. That’s that’s the thing.

Yeah. And I look at and I look at that, and you’re talking about it and you talking about helping others, and that helps people live better lives and do do better things. And that really, I think is the foundation for people that have when you look at some people say they found their calling or their passion or whatever. I really think that’s what they found is they really found their way to help others. And they felt that right yeah. And so it’s cool. Listen, you hear listen, you talk about it. Yeah, it’s just it’s it’s really cool. Jaina.

 

Jane Mintz  44:56

You know if you look at our population, I’ll and I’ll be short about As our people that we serve our high net worth high acid individuals, imagine the good that can be done if they felt good about themselves. Oh, imagine. Right. And so our entire field is made up of people that have stumbled and gotten up and are now serving.

Right, you know, lawyers that have lost their licenses, doctors that have lost their licenses all serve in this field because they can. But the real key the litmus test is are you happy? And you when you walk around seeing people fundamentally miserable? They you do you see it all the time? Right. That’s not okay. That’s, that’s poison. They’re spreading poison. So, you know, being happy is important.

 

Damon Pistulka  45:56

Yeah. No doubt. Well, again, Jane, thank you so much for being here today. It was awesome talking to you just incredible, incredible learning from you talking about crisis intervention, some of the situations you’re calling to help people. And if people want to talk to you, your website is once again, Jane,

 

Jane Mintz  46:19

Jane mense.com jnemintz.com. And then they could just talk to my assistant, Jen, and I’m happy to talk to anybody.

 

Damon Pistulka  46:29

Very good, very good. Well, I just want to thank you for being here, Jane, and sharing this with us because it’s so beneficial. And I’m sure that someone today is listening to it. And they may have a family situation with their their business or their family, businesses that they’re doing it that that you’re going to help them and I know that you said you mentioned this a while back in the show that I know some of the wealth planners that I’m working with, that are working with these kinds of NGOs are starting to really deal with this.

They’re planning alongside of it now. And they’re and it makes me feel better to just because it does affect so many families.

 

Jane Mintz  47:08

And the fact that you’re podcasting about this is it’s it’s so important. And I appreciate so much being a guest on your show, because I know we’ve done good together today. And if we’ve influenced anybody’s thinking at all, that’s the throw the pebble in a pond, right. That’s what we just did. And I’m just so grateful. Thank you.

 

Damon Pistulka  47:29

Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Well, thanks once again. Everyone that was listening, all the commenters today, we got Viekira we got China. We got Jeffrey. Michael Michaels saying three years clean and sober. Michael, there you go. We always got to celebrate that.

Right. So thanks, everyone for being here. All you that made comments, everyone that was listening, go back and listen again. You may be able to learn some from Jane that can help someone or you may want to reach out to Jen. They’re at Jane mense.com and talk to them about the situation. And thanks for being here. We’ll be back again next week. Jane hang on for just a moment and we’ll talk

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