• 45:58
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
leadership development, problem-solving teams, chemical engineer, executive coaching, Monsanto experience, leadership growth, problem solvers, psychological safety, autonomy, continuous improvement, manufacturing challenges, team empowerment, problem-finding, leadership shift, workplace culture
SPEAKERS
Jon Spiesman, Damon Pistulka
Damon Pistulka 00:07
All right, everyone, welcome once again to the faces of business. I am your host, Damon Pistulka, and I am so happy and excited for our guest today. We’ve got John Spaceman here today, talking about from firefighting to future proof, Bill proofing, building, problem solving teams. I can’t get it out of my mouth today, John, but thanks so much for being here today. Yeah, happy to be with you. Damon, yeah, it’s going to be great, because I really think this is a this is a topic that our listeners are going to enjoy learning about so let’s start out like we always like to John is really getting to know more about you and how you got into helping people the way you’re helping them today. Okay,
Jon Spiesman 00:55
yeah, so you know, my journey started in the corporate world. So I’m a chemical engineer. My background, you know, I call myself a recovering chemical engineer, yeah, sometimes because I didn’t realize, you know, that I was more of a people person than a technical person, and so I got into leadership pretty quickly. I worked for the same company for a long time, worked for Monsanto, had a great career with them. They really liked to to develop people through growing them into different experiences. So I had a lot of different jobs. Moved around a lot, and really, really enjoyed that. But then, you know, as things happen, we got bought by a foreign competitor, and during the during that process, I kind of came to a fork in the road, and did some soul searching to decide what, you know, what did I really want to do and what was going to be best for me, and and decided to take a leap into being an entrepreneur. And at first I didn’t know what I was going to do honestly, and then started doing some soul searching, thinking about, what did I love about my work? And what I didn’t realize is that moving around all the time meant that I was often leading teams that knew more about the work than I did. I was never an expert, and so I had to get good at asking questions and helping people to find the right way to navigate things, even though I didn’t have the right answers. So I didn’t realize it at the time, but that was a great intro to coaching, and it’s really what I love to do. You know, my wife told me at one point, John, when you come home from work and you want to talk about work, it’s always about the same things. It’s about, you know, it’s about somebody who made a breakthrough. It’s about a team who overcame a problem. It was about that side of my work, and helping others to grow and to thrive. Was what I loved most about my work, and I think I got pretty good at it because, you know, really, the way it works is that you don’t get your next job until you’ve you’ve helped your team grow enough so that you’re no longer necessary, right? So, so, so that’s what I kind of I got interested in. I reached out to somebody who had actually coached me when I was in Monsanto, and said, Hey, tell me more about this executive coaching stuff. Like, how do you, how do you get into it? Like, how do you, how do you get good at it? What do I need to learn? And he gave me some great advice. And and I kind of just jumped in. I went and got a, got a, I’ve got a couple of different certifications, and then just jumped in, started working with clients, worked with some that I, you know, didn’t, you know, learned what I didn’t want to do, yes and, and, kind of, you know, figured out an area where I can really help people, and that it’s good, you know, good mutual fit, yeah,
Damon Pistulka 03:56
well, and it’s in, there’s a couple questions I want to ask you about your background. I’m on saying, Oh, you were there for about 20 years, and you really were able to work up. I mean, in some of the later times you were, you know, billions of dollars in sales, you’re responsible for helping on customer care and other things. And that’s, that’s really, I mean, it’s a drastic change from, from where did you started as a chemical engineer with them? Yeah, I did, yeah, yeah. Means huge change. So one of the things that came to mind is they, and you mentioned this, what kind of leadership development were they doing with you? Because you don’t go from that level to that other level without significant leadership development.
Jon Spiesman 04:40
Yeah, you know, I they, they actually, you know, they really had a strong value, I think, for for leadership and and, like I said, one of the things that they did is they challenged people frequently. I think one of the one of the tenets of people development is always, you know, always. Seem to be make sure people are never in a comfort zone. So just about the time, you know, the rule of thumb was the first year you’re in a job, you’re basically adding no value, the second year you’re trying stuff, and the third year you’re cleaning up your mess before you give it to somebody else, right? And that that was the longest I was ever in a job. I don’t think, I don’t know how many jobs I ever made it to three years, but, yeah, but they were, they were always rolling people over, and they also, they also invested in in variety different programs to help people. So, like I said, I had a coach at one point, you know, somebody that was really focused on my development, and how do I grow my leadership impact? And so they had programs, and they even had, you know, they’re big enough company, they had a department that was focused on this, that that building those programs to build bench strength in leadership. And, you know, one of the, one of the real pivotal moments I remember was in one of those programs, and we had a CEO who was a very, very down to earth guy. You know, everybody knew him. You’d see him in the cafeteria. He was friendly. You could talk to him and everything. He was really well regarded, like he he was on the cover of magazines, like, top CEO, you know, top innovative company, and all these kinds of things. His name was Hugh Grant and and I remember being in one of these leadership programs, and he came and spoke to us, and he shared his leadership development goals. And I remember just sitting there thinking, like, he’s got leadership development goals, like, yeah, wait a minute, you know? And it just was such a great example. The company set such a great example, and the leaders set such a great example of always growing, yeah. And so that’s, that’s kind of the culture that they had. And, you know, some companies just they don’t have the luxury of having a department right to do that. They don’t. Maybe they might not even have a dedicated HR person, you know, small manufacturing companies or small service companies. So, so that’s actually how one of the reasons I kind of got to the niche that I play in is that a lot of companies need leadership development. They they may not know how to lead, because they haven’t been shown any other way than what they’ve experienced, right? And they don’t, they don’t have the luxury of having full time, HR professional resources or or development resources, yeah,
Damon Pistulka 07:35
yeah. And that is a that is a significant thing in business, because there are so many businesses out here that you get, you get promoted because of talent what you’re doing, but there’s really not that help to make sure you okay now you’ve leveled up. What is the kind of coaching or skills you need to develop in this role to be able to level up to the next role. And that’s, I think it’s a huge, huge opportunity for companies, and it’s a huge miss by a lot of companies,
Jon Spiesman 08:12
yeah, and I think you know when, when we talk about from firefighting to future proofing, you just touched on one of the real key challenges in manufacturing environment is that, if people, people get promoted because they’re good at problem solving, yes, you know, so. So, for instance, you might have, you know, the COO, right? Or the the leader of the manufacturing organization, you know, is probably somebody that’s been around it a long time. He knows how. He knows a lot of the issues. He’s seen a lot, you know, maybe she was involved in actually designing the facility, right? Or, you know, they may have had a hand in in the technology that they’re using, yeah, and, and so when you, when it comes time, and you’re as the CEO to make a choice of who’s gonna lead this organization, you know, you you go toward the expert, yeah, you know, because, because the reality is, manufacturing is tough, you know, it’s complicated, yeah, things, things are always going wrong. The orchestra, you know, that has to play in unison for manufacturing to run smoothly. It just can’t. You can’t sustain it for a period of time. There’s always a problem to solve.
Damon Pistulka 09:34
Yes, yes. There is, yes, there is, I want to say, we’ve got grant has got a question here for you, John, what’s one practical way to foster continuous growth within a company culture that’s worked well for you?
Jon Spiesman 09:50
Wow. Well, you know the thanks for the question. De grant, you know one of the easiest things to say right there is to lead by example. So, you know, so if you want your people to grow, though you’re the CEO of a company and you want people to grow, then do what Hugh Grant did. Hugh Grant shared his leadership development goals, you know, think about how that inspired me as a younger as a younger guy. If this, if the senior leaders are demonstrating that they’re growing, then other people are going to be interested in growing and they’re going to be open to it. I really believe that humans love to grow like, like, those are the kind of employees that you want. So walk the talk, and people will be walking right behind you. I
Damon Pistulka 10:38
agree. I cannot agree with that more because and it again, I said it earlier, it is so often overlooked, and it’s under understated in a lot of cultures and a lot of organizations, simply because they got there through the the school of hard knocks or learning as you go and it’s it’s as good as you are with that knowledge you have, but these, these outside, there’s so many things that are fingertips right now, literally at our fingertips, when you think about the books, the internet, just, even just articles to read about leadership that continue helping us become better, that it’s easier than it’s ever been before for organizations to really start to instill and implement more of this, even, even without much outside help.
Jon Spiesman 11:30
Yeah, you know it, it, you know, there are a ton of options. And you know, I, you know, you can’t see it here, but I like, I’ve got a library of books behind me. You know books. You know internet sources, online courses, there’s there’s all kinds of stuff out there. But one of the things that I’m a big fan of, though, and this, again, is where leadership comes into in the culture comes into play. One thing I’ve noticed about a lot of those leadership books on the shelf over there is that I was inspired when I read them, but if I didn’t go do something, then, yeah, like, nothing changed. Like, there’s a, you know, and I love this. I call my my business, 1% better leader. And what I mean by that is, like, I believe leadership takes work, like, you need to get better at it a little bit at a time, day after day after day. That’s how you make sustainable gains. You don’t get better by reading a book and having a step change and now you’re a 30% better leader. Yes, it never works that way. Yeah, you’ve gotta. You gotta be able to practice it. And so the best bosses that I had, you know, were the ones that were checking in with me on a regular basis about what I’m trying to do to grow, you know, and that’s what establishing a learning culture or a growth culture, you know, comes by people being interested, by taking a taking an interest in helping people to achieve what I think they already want, right? Is, which is to be, which is to get better at what they
Damon Pistulka 13:04
do? Yeah, yeah. And that is, that is so true. I think we have these resources. And that’s, that’s a Okay, DIY method, if you don’t have another option but a coach beside you that’s checking in to make sure you’re making the progress is, is something, and oftentimes, the difference between a between getting that progress 1% better, like you’re saying consistently, or for it not happening for a long time, and a little blip, and not happening for a long time, and then a blip, you know, because, like you said, you can go to a seminar, You can read a book, you can get excited about it, but if you’re not implementing consistently what you’ve learned, it’s kind of sitting on the shelf like your books, yeah.
Jon Spiesman 13:50
And, you know, we also, as humans, we also tend to have blind spots, you know, and, and sometimes we, you know, unfortunately, I still do this. I fall for my own. Bs, you know, my own story, right? Sometimes is the very thing that holds me back. Yes, you know, and that’s the thing that only having another person walking alongside you can help you break through those things.
Damon Pistulka 14:14
That’s very true, very true. So as as you were in Monsanto, one of the things, I mean, we’re talking about building problem solving teams, few for proofing your teams and your business. I mean, you, you mentioned a little bit you were leading teams that were more experienced than you. And I have to imagine a lot of these situations you’re in, you’re actually rebuilding teams, scaling teams, understanding, I mean, in the in the process of scaling, we see people are are moving beyond their capabilities, just all these different intricacies and building teams. What were some of the things that really stood out that you. In that process where you are scaling like crazy, expanding, and then having to look at the entire team and go, What, what’s really working, and what’s not?
Jon Spiesman 15:12
Oh, man, that’s a that’s a big question. You know, I think one of the biggest things that you know, that I, that I came away with from those experiences was that people can accomplish way more than they actually believe they can. And one of the things that many times I found myself as a leader is, is I was, I was the person that had to keep faith. You know, I all I needed to do was to continue to demonstrate confidence, you know, not confidence that I knew the answer, but confidence that we could find the answer, that we could get to the answer, you know, and and encourage people along the way, when they ran into problems, when they felt hopeless or discouraged, when they were frustrated because they had run into a barrier, right? You help in those situations, because I don’t have the answer, I don’t have the technical right? Okay, this is the way to solve that problem, but I try to remove barriers and try to have faith in them that they can do it. And number of times that people surprise you is, is incredible. Like, I could name off, you know, dozen times right off the top of my head, of people that after the project, or after the whatever, right after, you know, after the episode is done, how we were sitting there and we’re talking about, how did it go? What did we learn? And they were like, Man, I didn’t think I could do it. I didn’t think we could do no way. There was no way we could do it. And they were like, you know, why did you why did you continue to believe? And I said, well, sometimes I didn’t, you know. Sometimes you you know. You don’t. You aren’t sure. You know. You’re not sure, yes and but, what you need to do is continue to continue to have faith and continue to have confidence in people, and people will surprise you.
Damon Pistulka 17:07
Yes, that is for sure. That is for sure. So as you’re building these teams, we’re going to start talking about building these problem solving teams. Yeah, what are some of the fundamentals that really started to come out when you’re working with and building these teams and really getting your teams to the point that they are solving the problems like you are.
Jon Spiesman 17:31
Yeah, you know, there’s a, there’s a couple of really key things, I think that that it’s, it’s important for leaders to consider, right? Um, and one is, one is, you know, the people who can best contribute to their to your business, or the people that are in the trenches, right? You know, the people closest to the work are the ones that typically have the answers, right? It’s rarely, it’s usually not the person in the ivory tower. You know, sometimes, yeah, sometimes you need an expert to solve a problem. But most of the waste, most of the challenges, don’t require a degree to fix. Yes, you know what it what it requires is somebody to somebody to care enough to to listen and to help them fix it, you know? So. So one of the things I ask people to reflect on sometimes is like, what is the ratio of problem solvers to problem finders in your organization? And I learned this from a guy that I, that I work with here, named Rob Galloway. He used this example, you know, because he, you know, for a lot of companies, you know, we were describing earlier, that sometimes the senior person in the organization might be somebody who, who knows the answer. There’s somebody who, who’s lived through it, they know the equipment, they know, you know, they can answer the question, right? So, so sometimes people will say, Well, you know, whenever there’s a problem, eventually it finds its way up to Joe, the problem solver, right? So we have 400 people in the plant, but every problem goes to Joe. You got 400 people finding problems, but only Joe is solving problems. That’s a big issue for your business, right? What you really need is to increase that ratio of problem solvers to problem finders. You know, what you need is for your team to really feel like and want to solve every problem they’re capable of solving, not to just escalate problems to the problem solver, right? And and so self evaluating like, how do problems get solved in my organization today is a question that everyone should ask in a manufacturing or services organization, because you’ve got processes out there that have problems. Is who’s solving them. Now, if you’re going to, if you want to expand that ratio, if you want more people to be independent solving problems, then I really think there’s a couple of things that you have to do as a CEO or COO, right? And, you know, this is, it’s not easy, but that two of the things that I think are pretty magical ingredients are autonomy and psychological safety and and the other thing, you know, and why? Why are those things important? Yeah, yeah, right. Why are those important? So? So, what is autonomy? Right? Autonomy is like, I’m independent, and I’m capable and empowered to solve the problem, right? Um, that’s how, you know, that’s fundamentally, that’s how you build more problem solvers, right? Well, you know, what does this look like? How do you encourage that as a CEO, right? You know, there’s a few different things that you you should think about. One is like, Do people really know why they do, why the work that they do is important? That’s big deal, yeah, do they know? Like, do they know? Like, you know, so is your business connected to purpose that’s worthwhile, that people see that this is helpful to somebody else, right? They see the impact of their work on the customer, or maybe they see the impact of the work on the actual business. You know, I have some clients, I have some people I work with that have complete transparency down to the shop floor. Every shift, people know the gross margin they contributed. Wow. Now that’s that’s a big leap like that. It is. That’s a lot of trust, right? But think about the power, think about the autonomy that that creates in people.
Damon Pistulka 22:04
Oh yes, yes. I mean, and you to think about that. You talked about a few things, first, just getting those people in a safe, safe and empowered situation to where they they know, right? We talked about earlier, the people doing the work know, and if they feel safe about making a decision, they can solve a lot of those problems that that you won’t necessarily even need to know about. That’s right, it’s a huge thing,
Jon Spiesman 22:36
yeah, and there’s, there’s a couple of things that are really important in doing that. You know. One of them is, you know, is the work important? Is my work important? The other is, you got to give people way to know whether they’re winning or not, you know. And sometimes it’s as simple as you know. Can at any point in time. Do people know whether they’re ahead of schedule or behind schedule, right? You don’t necessarily have to know, like, what gross margin, right? You know, you created that day, but, yeah, are they ahead of schedule or behind schedule? You know, I had a client that this is a brilliant, brilliant idea. He they had production issues, and they were trying to de bottleneck, and they were about 1000 units behind. And he went out and he got a he got 1000 piece Lego puzzle in the shape of the Statue of Liberty. And every, every day that they ate into their backlog. So let’s say they gained 5050, units. They would take 50 pieces and and put 50 pieces on the puzzle. That’s awesome. And at the end of, at the end of a few months, they had the 1000 piece puzzle of Statue of Liberty, right? All these great images, right? They have, you know, freedom. You know, they were free from their backlog. Yeah, you know. But every day it’s in the lunchroom. It’s sitting there on the table. Every day people are walking by. They know what’s important, huge, you know. And so you gotta, you gotta really communicate to people what’s important and and let them know if they’re if you’re winning or you’re losing, yeah. And the other thing is, and this is the tricky, really tricky one. You got to get people to believe and buy in that leadership really wants them to find and fix problems. And this Damon is where, this is where a leadership shift is usually required. Because what do you think leaders that are used to being the answer people? What do you think happens the first time somebody goes and solves the problem differently than they would solve?
Damon Pistulka 24:49
Yeah, it’s like they’re they’re used to solving the problems, and they don’t feel comfortable with it.
Jon Spiesman 24:54
They don’t feel comfortable and they and they can, they can undermine people’s willingness to go and you. And solve their own problems, right? Yes. So if you want people to behave as problem solvers, you have to lead them differently. Yes, yes. You have to, you have to be, you have to change as a leader. If you want people to really do this,
Damon Pistulka 25:17
I remember one simple shift that I had to make. As you I started out a little different as a mechanical engineer in manufacturing, so I did know the processes. I was a process engineer, and then I was a tool I was a tooling engineer. That was a process engineer, then I was manufacturing, then I ran the facilities. So I understood the equipment. I understood how the process, all that stuff and and you realize soon that you can’t be the problem solver. Especially, I really learned it when I was running something that was 24/7, and you the question. The thing that changed it the most for me is I started asking people, What do you think they would come to me with a problem? What do you think we should do? And I would listen, and I would ask him maybe give a little comment. And I would say, That sounds awesome. Go ahead and do that. Yeah, you know. And just the these kind of things in the shift for me was I look back at that and I go, I didn’t even know what I was really doing at that point, making that shift other than I couldn’t answer all the problems. I couldn’t answer all the questions, couldn’t get involved all this stuff. But by doing that, I think you’re talking about the leaders that are used to doing this. Used to be in the problem solver. What I saw, though, over time, is some of these people started solving more of these problems way better than I ever could have. And it’s and it’s it starts to grow. And then you get these teams that are taking care of a lot of problems, and you’ll be as a leader, you’ll be sitting there with your teams in the manufacturing. They’ll talk about this problem that they fixed. It was just always nasty, and you didn’t even hear about it. Yeah, the customer didn’t know. Product went out the door like it was supposed to. They fixed it. And if you’ve done your work as a leader, they they took care of the base problem so you don’t have to worry about it again. And I think that that is the real opportunity that leaders have when they make that shift, is to let people like you said earlier, do more than they ever thought they could by enabling them to make those decisions.
Jon Spiesman 27:25
Yeah, man, that’s exactly the journey that’s so fun when that happens, like when, when people start to take that initiative solve problems on their own. You know? Because really, what should a senior leader be spending their time doing right? Yes, should they be spending their time solving problems that other people can solve? Or should they be leading the business and thinking about what they need to be doing five years from now? Right? Well, how do they get ahead of the game? Right? And that’s, that’s the biggest challenge that senior leaders face, is, you know, that takes time. That takes time. It takes energy, you know, and if you’re sucked into the day to day, you just can’t, you just can’t do it right? And it’s not doing your business a service, and it’s not serving the the people you’re employing either.
Damon Pistulka 28:15
Well, and we see that a lot in businesses that plateau. Yep, they plateau because there’s not enough problem solvers in the business a lot of times, and the owner, or the two or three key leaders, that’s all they’re doing is solving problems. And they can’t grow because they’re they’re constrained by their their ability to solve all the problems quickly enough, you
Jon Spiesman 28:36
know. And we talked earlier about blind spots like and so. So for many leaders, they find themselves in that situation, and it’s frustrating, you know? It’s really frustrating because it’s like, you know, I’ve worked my butt off to get to this point, and we’re just, we’re almost there, right? We’re ready to go to the next level. And I don’t understand, why can’t my team step up? Like, why can’t I get out of this reactive firefighting loop? Yes, and the the blind spot sometimes is the fact that their own behavior is what’s getting in the way of people taking ownership, because they keep coming to the rescue. They don’t do what you did, like you gave a great example of, okay, I’m not going to give them the answer, even though I might know the answer. I’m going to ask them what they should do. You know, one tactic I used, if there’s anybody on this call that I used to work with, this might be a news to them. I would tell people frequently that my pet peeve was people bringing me a problem with no recommendation, yep, and and I would, and I would snap at people if they did it right. It wasn’t really true, like I actually that was a tactic for me to get them to think I. And to come with a recommendation, and then we could have a discussion about the recommendation, and maybe I have some advice, or maybe I just help them think about it more, and then they go and do it. But I needed the raw material, so I told people that that was my pet peeve, you know. So it was just another way that I got this one place you did. But the key is, you got to get yourself out of that cycle. You got to let people, you know, you got to it’s like a tree can’t grow in the shadow of a bigger tree. You got to back up and give them some light and give them an opportunity to solve problems and make mistakes. You know, learn. You learn you didn’t get everything right? First time, right?
Damon Pistulka 30:41
That is 100% that’s a great example, too. You’ve gotta step back and let the let the sun shine on them. And Grant had a couple more comments here. First of all, he said, That’s brilliant. Those in the trenches do usually have the answers, or at least the most inventive and resilient in finding answers. That is, and I cannot tell you how many times the people on the manufacturing line or running a piece of equipment, they knew what to do. And you’re you got six engineers standing around there trying to figure something out, and they go, just do that right there. And you’re like, Good, yeah, we should have done that. Should ask you, yeah. And he said, How can this is one, how can problem finders be converted or cultivated into being problem solvers? I think we’ve talked about that a little bit. But any other thoughts on that? John,
Jon Spiesman 31:30
yeah, you know, one of the biggest things that you that are a barrier, I think, to creating problem solvers, is that often people are willing to live with a problem. Oh, they’re willing to live with the problem. And one of the things is leadership that you need to do is to, you know, I think you have to really encourage and go out of your way to encourage people to not just live with the problem or work around it. You know, one, one great one, one great way to approach conversation with somebody on the floor that I saw that led to this problem solving kind of attitude was number one to come up and thank people. So thank people frequently for whatever it is they’re doing right. Thank them like it means a lot, you know, and then and then, and then ask them, you know, ask them how you can help, and when they point out a problem. And this is tricky, because you really have to mean it, right? You say, you know, I’m sorry. I’m sorry that you, you are having to deal with this issue or this problem, like, I want to help you get this fixed. So what help do you need from me? How can I help you? You know, how do we remove this issue from you and you know, right there, you’ve almost, you’ve closed the loop. You’ve thanked them for what they’ve already done. You’ve asked them what you can do to help. They pointed out a problem. You’ve taken an interest and a genuine interest and and tried to help them solve the problem for themselves. Right? So that’s one way to cultivate it is almost even though that’s like a one on one kind of, yeah, when you do it, but when you think about building a whole organization that operates that way, right? You have to do that. You have to create that autonomy. So you have to people need to know how they’re doing. They need to know they need to be recognized, and they need to know whether they’re winning or they’re losing. And then we talk, we haven’t talked much about this psychological safety. Like, that’s one of those big words is maybe overused sometimes, but for me, the the bottom line on that is you really have to think about your approach to failure. Yeah, yeah. Like, like, if you want people to try to solve problems, you have to be willing for to that, for them to make it worse. Yes, yes, yeah, you know. And then you have to stand there with them and be willing to support them to learn from it and move on and fix it and get better, right? If there’s any kind of punitive element to to problems or to to failure, that’s a big problem. People are not going to be willing to come forward with their ideas. Yes, you know So creating, creating safety, or even creating, like, a fun atmosphere around problem solving. Of, hey, what experiments are you running today? You know, what did you learn today? You know, I’ve seen people run contests for ideas they do, like science fair to sort of things where they’re sharing ideas of who did these improvements and recognizing each other. Like, that’s how you create that. Safety where people, not only do they feel like they need to solve the problems, they’re willing to yes, they’re willing to take the risk to go forward and bring their idea and try it. Yes,
Damon Pistulka 35:11
I like the psychological safety again. I I love helping people through that part of it, because no one likes to make a mistake, right? And you’re out there and you’re encouraged people to solve a problem, and inevitably, someone does something, and it doesn’t work out, right? And there is, I think, the one of the things that is was always the most fun for me, is walking out into a situation like that. And, you know, 99 and a half percent of these things aren’t multi billion dollar problems. It’s, yes, it costs a little money, cost us a little time. But really, in this whole scheme of things, it’s not a big deal. But bringing some lightness to that, bringing some and, you know, locking up. So I guess we figured out another way that it doesn’t work. Let’s move on from here, you know, and not like you said, because you can come out and go, What the heck happened? Right? Why did you do that? Well, you just shut them down from from whatever you want again. But really what we want is to encourage that experiment, that rational, thoughtful experimentation. Because if you are really trying to build a culture that can solve problems and continuously get better, that is the only way to do it, the people have to be thinking about what they’re doing, like you said. We don’t want to be willing with we won’t want to be willing to live with a problem or the way it is today, if there’s a better way to do it, and the only way to do that is to get every single person thinking about that in the organization. And it’s so much fun to come in there and go, yes, we totally flub this up. That’s just the way it is. Let’s Yeah, you know, bad for a second, laugh about it and move on, because that’s the only time. Because if we wait too much longer, we’re wasting time feeling bad about something that’s already over,
Jon Spiesman 37:10
yeah, you know, and, and you’ve got to, you’ve got to really create a culture where everybody acts the same way, right? Because it could. It’s not only just a leader that can shut that down, like that one guy on the team, right, that is the naysayer, right? Can also shut that down. So you have to, you really got to be vigilant about the culture. And you know, if you’re going to get everybody with that attitude of saying, like, what if, and let’s try, you know, if you can get people thinking about possibilities, and you know how to overcome their problems. And bottom line, right? This is an easy sell, right? Really, all you’re doing is saying, Hey guys, I want you to have the greatest workplace that you can have. Yep. Now, help me. Help Help. Help me with ideas of how we can get there. I want this. We want to be productive. We want to be safe, we want to be fast. We want things to be easy. We want things to work the first time. You know, all these things that operators or people are frustrated about, typically, that’s the drag of on your business. Yes, yes, all you’re doing is telling people, look, I want this to be the best place to work we can, and I’m willing to stand behind you and help you do it, you know. But you gotta, you gotta, you gotta really follow through on that. Yes,
Damon Pistulka 38:29
yes, that’s awesome. That’s awesome. So as you’re coaching people now, what’s the, what’s the thing that excites you the most about it,
Jon Spiesman 38:41
man? You know, you know, it really is, I think those breakthrough moments, you know, I think it’s, it’s, and they usually come in one of, one of two, one of two ways, right? Either, either a person has the something that’s holding them back, right? And, and and it almost becomes a story that they’re telling themselves, right? It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, well, I can’t do that, or I can’t be that, because, you know, and as a coach, you come in and you listen to that for a little while, and then maybe you talk to other people, interview some other people, you find out more about the story, and you get a wedge, you find a wedge, and he’s and you push it in there, and you challenge that story, you know. You say, really? You say this, right? But let’s pull that apart a little bit, right? Is that actually true, you know? And you get them to start questioning their story. And then sometimes, in no time, like they immediately will jump to the conclusion, like, saying, wait a minute, like, you know, that’s like, I’m that’s something that happened 10 years ago, and I’m still, like, in that mode, like I don’t have to do it that way, like I could, I could try something else, and I That’s awesome. What do you want to try? Try. You know, let’s try. Like, what can we try? So those moments where you see people like, see past the wall, right? Or even maybe better, is when you see people who you’ve coached, who you’ve helped to see through things and help them to accomplish things they didn’t think they could do and when they start to do it with other people, yeah, when because, like, I’m big on I don’t I want to teach people how to be a coach for their teams. And sometimes that’s hard people. People like, wait a minute, I’m the boss. I can’t be the coach. Coach is not the boss. Like, look, you can wear both hats. Yeah, you can have both hats in your office, you know? And, yeah, you can’t. You can’t necessarily wear them both at the same time. Sometimes you clearly have to have the the leader hat on and but, but you can put that coach hat on at any time, if you have the relationship, right, if you can do it. And when I see people moving into that mode, when they can start to get the best out of the people that they’re leading man, that’s, that’s awesome. That’s you see whole change in paradigm, like you see people who didn’t used to trust people you know, that used to think that I got to be on top of people, yes, to get, you know, to get the time, to get the productivity or whatever out of it, and then when they start saying things like, what we’ve been saying, like, hey, these people can accomplish more than they think they can. Like, I just, I just need to find a way to get them, you know, to get them to believe it, yeah, that’s a complete mindset shift. Yes, you know, that’s fun. That’s just, that’s so fun and and you see it. The best part about it Damon is that it creates a it creates a great business, yes, but it, it creates, and it creates a great workplace, but these people go home happy, yes, these people create happy families. They create happy communities. And this stuff makes a difference in the world. Yep, you know, it’s not just about making a few more bucks, you know, or maxing out the profit share, yeah, but I think that in business, we have an opportunity to make an impact in people’s lives, outside of work and in communities and in society. Yeah,
Damon Pistulka 42:32
100% and you’re, it is so important, I think, to bring that up because, you know you can make if you’re if you’re thinking about it, and you’re coaching, you’re doing the right things for your teams, they are happier, and that transcends into happier lives outside the work. And I mean, it’s no different than safety. I used to always talk about safety. It’s like, Listen, you get hurt at work. You’re hurt at home. You can’t fish, you can’t go out hike, and you can’t do that stuff. You get hurt work. That’s why we want to be safe. Yes, we don’t want you to get hurt here at work, but we don’t want you to be hurt at home, because that’s more important than work. And you know, that’s the same thing with with creating a great culture, it helps people feel better about themselves. It feel that translates into how they they treat everyone else they touch or interact with during a day.
Jon Spiesman 43:21
That’s right, that’s right. So it’s that, it’s that butterfly effect, right, in a positive way, right? Yeah, where you know, I think we can, you know, great cultures, great workplaces, have that opportunity, yeah?
Damon Pistulka 43:33
Well, John, I just want to thank you for stopping by today. This has been an incredible conversation, talking about building these problem solving teams and future proofing businesses, if people want to get a hold of you, what’s the best way for them to find you, learn more about what you’re doing or reach out?
Jon Spiesman 43:54
Yeah, thanks for that. The best, and thank you for hosting. This has been really fun. I really enjoyed the conversation. The best way to get in touch with me is to reach out on LinkedIn so you can either direct message me, or there’s a link on my profile where you can you can just jump on my calendar and schedule a call. All right, you know, just to explore chat, get to know each other, whatever you know I love, I love business. I love talking about leadership. I post there regularly, so if you follow me, you’ll get a sense of the kinds of things that I that I love to talk about and and maybe learn a few of the things that I like to talk about outside of work too. And I’ll be, I’ll be posting about ski season here. If it ever snows,
Damon Pistulka 44:48
it’s getting closer for that. It’s getting closer for that. Well, thanks so much. And I want to just just recommend everyone, if you got in this late and you didn’t hear John all the way from the beginning, go back. To the beginning, because, I mean, he dropped some golden nuggets about how you can build better teams that really can start solving the problems in your business, how you as a leader, can help to empower those teams, help them grow so that you can begin to grow your business, grow your leadership ability, and really create a wonderful culture. Thanks again for being here today, John. We give me a John spiesman from 1% better leader, talking about building problem solving teams. Thanks so much. We’ll finish up offline. I want to thank grant for the comments today, everyone else that was listening that didn’t comment. Thank you for listening today. We appreciate it and always enjoy the fact to seeing that you’re out there listening. John will finish up offline. We’re done for now. All
Jon Spiesman 45:53
right. Thanks. You.
