linkedin, people, resume, companies, recruiters, applying, linkedin profile, interview, job, job seeker, dave, clients, hire, talk, profile, provide, connections, hr, work, months
Damon Pistulka, David Alto
Damon Pistulka 00:02
All right, everyone, welcome once again to the face of the business. I’m your host, Damon Pistulka. And I’m excited for our guests today. Because we have David alto from alto advanced with us today. And he’s going to be talking about getting a better job quicker. David, thanks for being here today, man.
David Alto 00:23
Oh, no, I appreciate it. You know, it’s nice seeing you on LinkedIn and nice coming on the show here today. Yeah, appreciate
Damon Pistulka 00:30
it. Awesome. Awesome. Well, we were talking a little bit beforehand. I still remember we’ve been connected for a few years now. And I remembered when when we did connect, it was back in 2020, during that time, when everybody was was kind of restricted a little bit. And I remember seeing, Hey, there’s this guy in the Tri Cities of Washington, which, which I think is a wonderful place. Some of the year. And and it’s, it’s an interesting place to live for sure. So and what you do, is really cool. You’re helping people find new opportunities, work on their LinkedIn profile. And now you’re actually helping companies with outplacement services as well. I see. So look forward to talking about this a little more.
David Alto 01:21
Oh, yeah. But anything, anything and everything all all share it all.
Damon Pistulka 01:26
Good. Good. Well, let’s start with your background, David, because I think it’s it’s pretty interesting to hear how people got into what they’re doing today. So a little bit,
David Alto 01:39
yeah, sure. So we don’t have to go back too far. Back in 2019, I was a multi unit manager. And I’ve been I was a multi unit manager for for about nine years, overseeing lots of retail stores traveling throughout the state, Washington, Oregon, Idaho. And it was the beginning of 2019 I was afraid that our company was going to sell or start aggressively franchising, and I’m like, okay, not again, am I going to be found, you know, without without a plan without a maybe a job. So I really got on LinkedIn yet again, I’ve had an account since 2012, like everybody else, had an account forever did nothing with it, right? So got on LinkedIn, started looking around at some different jobs and didn’t really see anything I liked. But I just started started posting and I posted like tips, just just advice regarding resumes, because I’ve always been writing resumes on the side for a long time. But being a multi unit manager, you know, managing and training and developing sales teams. So I just started providing little tips and advice on LinkedIn, and people started following me. And then, you know, it was on my birthday on January 24 2019, it was my 50th birthday. So I shared my first video that I ever did on LinkedIn. And it wasn’t a what a lot of people would think I shared just advice and tips, I was happy I turned 50. Because a lot of people didn’t know that when you turn 50 here in the United States, you can actually contribute more to your 401k A lot of people don’t know that. So, so I just shared that. And some people, you know, they liked that. They didn’t know that. You know, and then throughout the year, I just started getting providing tips and advice. I had some amazing phone calls with some people on LinkedIn that just said, Hey, let’s chat it, whether it’s zoom or phone call. And they were interested in what I was doing. And they could see that I was on LinkedIn providing tips and advice, but I didn’t do that for I didn’t write resumes really for a living, right. I didn’t Yeah, their LinkedIn. And well, I was giving away all this for free on LinkedIn, all of it for free. And then somebody in August said, Dave, I gotta pay you, I landed an amazing job, I gotta pay you for that resume. And I’m like, okay, so that was the first client that I took money from. And then I thought, well, I guess if it’s good enough, I’ll just just do it on the side, right? Just do it a little bit. And then, boy, you know, September, October, and I’m like, I’m getting busy, but yet I’m working 50 to 60 hours a week and my dad. So I’m doing this at night in the mornings and on the weekends. And I think I told my wife, I think if I left my day job, I might be able to make a living out of this might and she saw how busy I was getting. So I gave my boss a two month notice because I because I’m nice. And then December of 2019 I left my day job to do what I’m doing full time. But step back in my previous career. I did an awful lot of interviews. I mean an awful lot of inner Use, I was hands on with my managers. Anytime somebody they on boarded a new employee I was there the very first day I wanted to make sure that went well. But interview second interviews, I was doing it all and I provided maybe we didn’t hire this person and I but I would say hey, on your resume, just let you know, the next job you apply for.
Please change this.
Damon Pistulka 05:26
So you’re helping them as as you weren’t hired them.
David Alto 05:29
Right, you know, and, and, but I wanted them to present better at the next one. So all of that allowed me, you know, I was not looking, I was kind of looking for a job on LinkedIn when I had one in 2019. But I wasn’t looking to start my own business, it just kind of fell into my lap, are really good at what I do a training and developing, you know, people and I thought, you know, well, I can combine that with writing resumes learning about LinkedIn. And I really, every time I learned something new about LinkedIn, on LinkedIn, I shared it in the post, like the next day. And you know, I was posting then maybe a couple times a week went to once a day, and now you know, two, three times a day.
Damon Pistulka 06:19
That’s awesome. That’s awesome. So what do you think that your retail experience and all that leading and and interviewing and helping people really taught you about? resumes?
David Alto 06:34
Sure. So that’s easy, okay. Because since I’ve had to review a lot of resumes, nobody is ever going to read your entire resume, I hate to tell you that, you know, you put a lot of blood, sweat and tears in writing that resume, right? Or you pay somebody to do it, you would hope they read it all. They don’t 1020 30 seconds they’re glancing at it. So what did that teach me? Well, after looking at 1000s of resumes, you know, my career before I started doing what I’m doing today, you know, I know my eyes go into certain places, right? And certain resumes allow me like to look at different things, right? If, like, if everything’s a bullet point, well, what’s important, so say those people save those bullet points for those amazing metrics, accomplishments and achievements. I know that I’m not going to read probably an entire cover letter. But if I glanced at the cover letter, it could influence where I spend my time on the resume. By being that person that reviewed a lot of resumes, and then and then interviewing these people. I know what to create in a resume to get that same attention. And, you know, for me, everybody’s resume is different, because everybody’s experience is different, right? Everybody’s, and I own that resume. Man, if you if you do business with me, I tell you what, that’s like my baby, you know, how do I position that person? But how do I position them for multiple different jobs that they might be applying for? So I think, if I, so I asked my clients to send me the links of various jobs they could see themselves applying for because that allows me to identify missing hard and soft skills, transferable skills. So if I didn’t do that, I’d still provide a good product, but not knowing what they’re going to be applying for. And just assuming it’s what they’re, you know, they’ve been doing for a long time. Really doesn’t do it justice, because your resume should speak to what you’ve done before, in the past, what you’re doing today, and what you might be able to do in the future.
Damon Pistulka 08:52
Where you’ve done before, where you’re doing today, and why you might be able to do
David Alto 08:56
well, yeah. Because I know for me when I did a lot of hiring, you know, I didn’t hire for that. Just that one position, right? Can I potentially see that person doing the next role someday, maybe, you know, just just someday. And if your resume can kind of share that? Well, then if you know, if I’m a if I’m a if I’m a hiring manager, and I’m in a recruiter or HR, and I’m looking at that resume, I’m going, you know, potentially, I’m going to interview this person, because not only do I see them being successful in this role, that maybe in that next role as well. And let’s face it, companies want to hire want to promote internally, they don’t want to always hire just off the street, right? Because a lot of additional training and whatnot. We want to provide people with a path to further develop themselves in in the company that we’re with. So all of that really allows me to look at resumes a lot different and I’ve been a struggling job seeker and And a lot of people come to me and go, Okay, Dave, I’ve been applying for like eight months, and I just get those rejection emails, right. And you know what I remember. And if you don’t know this about me, so on my honeymoon in 2012, I lost my job. So, so, so I’ll briefly share it. So after a wedding, I got had a destination wedding in the Bahamas, my boss calls me leaves me a message, I returned the call the day after my wedding. And I thought he was gonna congratulate me, right. And he didn’t even know what Island what resort I was on, he found out through some, my appears, calls me and had to tell me that the company had eliminated what, two divisional vice presidents 20 regional directors and 70 district managers and I was a district manager at the time. And so I had to walk down to the beach, where my wife was my bride of one day and tell her, Hey, I lost my job. But good news is is four and a half years later, the same guy called me back and asked me to come back. But anyway. So I’ve been a job seeker. And if your resume doesn’t align with the jobs that you’re going to be applying for, you might, you might be more than qualified, but not get those results. So having somebody in your corner, you should open up your wallet a little bit for a lot of different services, resumes should be one of them. Because you’re too close to the subject matter, regardless of who you hire. You’re, you’re too close to the subject matter to know what to include or what not to include. And there’s tricks and little nuances. You know, that is resume writers kind of know, to help you get noticed.
Damon Pistulka 11:49
Yeah, yeah. And that’s for sure. And it is something that has it changed so much to
David Alto 11:56
Oh, yeah. See, I haven’t seen any good.
Damon Pistulka 12:00
The the, the requirements of, of just trying to get selected out of, you know, 1000s of people?
Yes. What are you? So
Damon Pistulka 12:12
first of all, when you’re gone through these resumes, what are you seeing that people put too much of? Or not enough of?
David Alto 12:20
Sure. So there’s still that school of thought that your resume has to be one page. And if you’ve been working for 10 or 15 years, I just ask everybody, can you get what you’ve done in your career? In 10? Or 15 years on one page? The answer is no. So guess what, it gets to the average page length is two anyway, nobody’s gonna read it, regardless of one page, two page, three pages or whatever. But you have to have, you have to be able to tell your story and have some of those heart you know, you know, hard and soft skills to match to the, you know, job description and whatnot. But Long gone are the days of that one page resume, you do not need to include references, or you know, or even say references available upon request. You don’t want to write in first person you don’t want to write I on your resume. Resumes are kind of boring, you know, the cover letter can be geared more towards you know, sharing a story. And then those colorful one page resumes with graphs and graphics. Well, if you move all the graphs and graphics, it really says nothing about what you’ve done in your in your career in the job. So although those look pretty, those don’t get a lot of a lot of attention or usually ever gets seen.
Damon Pistulka 13:47
Well and those those actually I’ve heard before that the the fancy which lack of a better word with all the graphics and things and different fonts, they give the the scanners trouble reading the OCR is to read the text to actually turn it into something that the the HR people, the internal people can actually use
David Alto 14:08
Hunter Hunter 100% Because and even I’ll go a step further I tell my clients always use a word doc when you apply online. Now, if you’re emailing your resume PDF looks better. Yeah. But Word doc generally has a easier time, you know, the data being scrubbed off of it because a PDF is more like a picture almost. Now some people say oh my gosh, if I send them a word, Doc, they could change it. Well, if they change it for the better, then that’s good, I guess. But I mean, I can I can convert anything to anything if you have a Yeah, word it so that that goes out the window. So don’t worry about that. But yeah, graphs, graphics, they add no value. So if you’re thinking you know, is that little graphic or whatever You’re adding providing any value? And the answer is no. Or I see, you know, I have five, four stars out of five stars on this skill. What do you don’t need the stars? You just need to write the skills. You don’t need any of that. So,
Damon Pistulka 15:14
yeah, yeah, that’s, that’s yeah, lots of things to consider in this and like you said, I think this is this is is gone well PLAs a do it yourself task and a lot of regards. So let’s talk a little bit about something that I think you do a little bit differently. And that is your, your LinkedIn presence, because you’re, you’re helping people with LinkedIn profiles, how that looks, and in really, what, what really got you to tie those two together?
David Alto 15:48
Sure, because, well, I take from my previous experience, you know, if and my wife does this, when she interviews, a few people every month for the company that she works for, is, you know, somebody has your resume, they’re gonna go to your LinkedIn profile to see if they can learn more about you. And regardless of why you’re on LinkedIn, if you’re a job seeker, maybe you’re an entrepreneur, small business owner, you know, your LinkedIn profile, you can add so much more to your profile than most people realize you can, it can be almost like your own website, maybe you you’re starting your own business, you can’t afford a fancy website, well, your LinkedIn profile can almost be like your website, people are going to show up there and the average hiring manager recruiter is going to spend well more than 10 or 20 seconds, that they would on your resume, they’re going to spend that way more than that on your LinkedIn profile, just because all of the extra things you can add, you can add a 10 second audio of yourself, your banners should be able to tell people a little bit about what you do. You know your about section, the featured section that, you know that, you know, a lot of people don’t, the average person doesn’t add anything there, they don’t know what exists or don’t know what to add. So again, how you show up, I mean, you know, if they get to see a friendly, you know, smile when they when they you know, because the resume is not going to have a photo of you or at least shouldn’t, you know, so again, all of that matters, as they’re, you know, looking to potentially interview you or hire you. If you have a decent LinkedIn profile, you’re going to be doing way better than the rest of the people that they’re looking for, you know, prior to, you know, scheduling those interviews, so and how you show up on social media, even if you do b2b or b2c on LinkedIn, how you show up, you’re a better representation for the company, your department, different clients, and vendors are looking at your profile and maybe your portfolio manager or account manager, you have plenty of accounts. I mean, how you show up better represents you, your departments, your organization and the services that you provide. I know if I was hiring somebody, I’m you know, well, you and I are old enough to know, maybe go to the old yellow pages, right? Yeah. That don’t exist anymore, basically. But LinkedIn is, you know, anytime I need a service, I go to LinkedIn. Now I don’t even Google, I try to see if there’s somebody local. If somebody says, Dave, do you know somebody that does this? I’m like, oh, yeah, let me just look. And LinkedIn is, uh, what? 900. Last time I checked yesterday, 960 million users on LinkedIn.
Damon Pistulka 18:39
Yeah. Yeah. That’s, that’s a great reason to because you think about now and even asking questions about this. But as we look at being a safe 30 years ago, or young person coming out of college, right, you know, build on that profile early. And putting a little bit of work into it over time. That thing is going to be able to really show a lot over the decades when and if somebody really wanted to get to know who you are and what you’ve done. You could put quite a quite a piece together.
David Alto 19:17
Oh, 100% I think bare bone minimum would be if you’re in college, you got to have a decent LinkedIn profile. Although, you know, I taught a course for a local high school here. I DID IT Pro Bono was just fun to do. And I was quite surprised when you know, the students were like, okay, yeah, that makes sense. Right. And they and we went through the networking piece that maybe we will share today. And and I’m like you’re linked if you have a better LinkedIn profile, and you’re gaining followers and connections now, you know, I know you want to be on YouTube and shoot that view to video or Tik Tok and or whatever I know you do and I want you to To do that, too, I do. But LinkedIn, as you grow and progress in your career is going to be the place where they see you. So I don’t care what kind of presence you have on, you know, tick tock or whatever. Having a, a LinkedIn profile when your high school or college for sure. is a must. It just?
Damon Pistulka 20:25
Yeah, cuz it really is the I mean, it is kind of like your living resume. Almost.
David Alto 20:31
Oh, heavens, yes. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And like I said, you know, the resume, you know, you got to apply. But there’s so many different ways to get noticed on LinkedIn. Even just optimizing your headline, you can show up better in better recruiter searches. And then there’s little things that you can do on LinkedIn to potentially get a referral before applying for jobs, and just so many different ways to leverage the power of LinkedIn.
Damon Pistulka 20:59
Yeah, that that’s one of the things that so back, one of the questions I had, before we get into more about LinkedIn, and more about we talked about networking, just really there. So do you see in your clients coming, that the actual people are changing jobs more frequently? Or is that just kind of we’ve we did that a long time ago? And we’re just kind of holding? Or do you think it’s actually is changing a lot more?
David Alto 21:27
No, I tell you what we’ve really seen, I mean, the average job seeker, you know, stays at a job three years, three years. Now, that’s for lots of different reasons. Maybe employee leaves for whatever reason, maybe company downsizes, or whatever, you know, because companies are eliminating people or you know, more than ever. So no, the average is like three or four years. And that is why, you know, I get a lot of, you know, I get a lot of people maybe in their 50s and 60s or even early 70s that are still still still want to work, you know, and they say, Well, I’m worried about ageism. And I said, Well, time out. You don’t have to worry about it as much anymore. And here’s why. Companies need people that can like hit the ground running, right? Well, that’s not that college graduate. Because companies don’t need to hire somebody and then go, Okay, we’re going to invest in them, because they’re gonna be here for 20 or 30 years. So the average employee is only sticking around for three or four years. Wouldn’t you rather hire somebody that can hit the ground running today? And answer? Yes. So we’re seeing, it’s just the mindset that people were seeing college graduates really struggle in landing jobs, because, hey, they’ve been told by their parents or someone that, hey, you’re gonna you’re gonna come out and get $150,000 job. Now, that may be the case, depending on industry here. Yeah. It could be depends on me. Yeah. But more than likely not. And the problem is, they’ve been told that, right, so they’re only applying for well, here, I always tell my job seeker. My clients is listen, if you really don’t align with that job, well, guess what, there are going to be plenty of people that are applying that have done that job before done it successfully, and done it for a long time. So you know, only very little about them. Or maybe you just graduated college and that you haven’t had a living working really experience. You’re going to struggle, you’re gonna struggle. So maybe that entry position. I know, for me back in the day, you know, I took whatever job I didn’t care what it you know, what it paid back in the day. I was willing to put in the time and effort. We don’t see that quite as much anymore for some of these college graduates. Not all of them, not all of them. But some of them. You know, what, that salary immediately? Without maybe, maybe they hadn’t even worked period? Anywhere? I mean, geez, at least work somewhere. But you know, I get it.
Damon Pistulka 24:12
Yeah, yeah. Well, you answered a couple questions there because I was actually going to ask about ageism. And that’s, that’s a great, that’s a great point. Because, you know, it’s kind of the unsung discrimination factor that nobody wants to talk about, because everybody does it. Okay. And, and I just the, you know, the, the fact that you bring up this point about, you know, they want people that hit the ground learning maybe that that’s something is going to help people that are in their, you know, in it, I don’t know if it used to be you hit 40 and it started to started to happen. You hit 45 and 50. And it’s, it’s significant. And after that it’s even tougher, but that was always something that that I see in In the workforce, and you catch yourself too, when you look at resumes, you catch yourself thinking about it, you know, and all the things that people talk about, it’s like, Hey, if you got, God forbid, you had still had an AOL, you know, or something. Do they even have email accounts like that anymore?
David Alto 25:15
Yes, they do. They do. Okay, I see it. I go.
Damon Pistulka 25:23
Yeah, yeah. But those, those kinds of things can help you out. Because that, you know, on the other hand, I think that you make a great point about about an older worker that comes in as long as you can make the case why you are the best candidate. And that may may include you have to show that you’re, you know, more adept at technology or whatever it is that you need to do. You can hit the ground running where others can’t. That’s kind of cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,
David Alto 25:52
AOL, I came across that the other day, I don’t ever know. And I do encourage clients to listen, you know, just get just for applying and applying only get a, you know, Gmail, whatever, you know. And, yeah, don’t don’t, don’t get that AOL dust off that. Don’t dust off that AOL count time to get a new one. I can’t believe it’s still it’s still there. But I
Damon Pistulka 26:17
know, I know. It’s, it’s yeah, some of the stuff just doesn’t die. So, you know, you look at looking at your profile on LinkedIn, you’ve helped about 300 people in the last seven months, find new opportunities, you got 480 Recommend recommendation from business executives, you know, and others that you’ve helped, what are some of the things that you enjoy the most about what you do?
David Alto 26:43
You know, that’s, that’s easy, you know, for me, it’s remembering being a struggling, you know, job seeker and not getting, you know, applying for jobs and more than qualified and getting a rejection email, like, how am I getting a rejection it? Shouldn’t I get at least a call, right? Do you know how amazing I am, right? Well, until you know, what they’re going to do to, you know, compare your resume to the job, you know, to the job description, whether or not somebody in, you know, HR Recruiter keys in some keywords, or whatever. But it wasn’t until I learned somebody on LinkedIn shared this with me, and I was looking for a job that is was in 2019. And I reached out to somebody on LinkedIn, before I applied for a job here locally, in the Tri Cities. And I reached out to a few people, I messaged them, and asked them if I’d be a good fit. And they they ended up saying, Well, hey, let’s just meet for coffee. Right? This is prior to COVID, we can meet back then. So we met for coffee. And he’s like, I don’t think you’d be a good fit for this position. But I know another one’s coming up. And sure enough, I got an interview, I got an interview, I went all the way to the end. Now I didn’t get the job was a little bummer. But I learned something about being on LinkedIn, look, I went to LinkedIn, I searched for people in the same or similar position that I was going to apply for, you know, now I didn’t expect to meet with them in person, you know, I could have made a phone call or just chatted, you know, via DM and LinkedIn. But I learned that even I didn’t even apply for that job yet. And I had somebody in my corner because let’s face it, you know, referral bonuses he would have gotten about, I think $1,200 If I would have gotten hired there you go. There, you know, the but again, most people don’t leverage LinkedIn, like the world’s largest free database. 960 million people. Most people don’t leverage it that way. And building your network on LinkedIn, just like in real life. You know, it’s not about it’s not about always you being able to help somebody but what if somebody you know, know somebody, right? Or you’re chatting, you’re chatting with somebody and Ah, man, I wish I knew somebody at that job, like my uncle works there. Let me introduce you. Well, don’t worry about your personal life, because that’s pretty small. 960 million people on LinkedIn, you can do some searching really quick. In fact, I have a free resource I’m willing to give anybody and everybody they just have to message me. But I teach my clients how to leverage LinkedIn and how to you know, every time you’re connecting to somebody, their connections become your second degree connections. And and that is where the magic happens. Because again, it’s not always who you know, that can help you but you know, somebody that knows somebody
Damon Pistulka 29:43
know somebody that knows somebody. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And that’s, that is really and in I’ve had the the unfortunate enough to be able to work with companies that have you know, 10s of employees usually and sometimes hundreds and and But the thing that I’m often surprised about is that the HR managers are not really as active as they could be on LinkedIn to really recruit, right. And I’m like, this is this is your, you know, you’re setting here paying recruiters for people. But if you really leverage this in the same amount of time that you’re putting job ads on Indeed, and you’re doing all these other things, you could find people in your network, if you had a decent sized network, you could probably in your industry, you could find all the people you ever wanted by your second degree connections. 100%. And
David Alto 30:39
that is why companies need to make sure that their department managers, their HR teams, have an amazing LinkedIn profile and actually know how to use it. Most recruiters, I’m gonna say most, most, if you and so if I’m not calling out everybody, but most recruiters do a terrible job of showing up on LinkedIn, or, you know, they don’t even know about the audio, they don’t even know their profiles should be the best. But they have a lot of tools that they’re resource, but they don’t get they don’t, they don’t get taught that. And a lot of companies are afraid, oh my god, Dave, if we teach, if I teach my department heads, how to leverage LinkedIn better and have a better profile, that means they’re going to find another job and leave. No, again, they’re going to show up better for your clients and your vendors and, you know, future clients. And, yes, HR if they spent just a little bit more time. And when I say HR admin, you know, maybe maybe recruiters, maybe just mostly recruiters, but find those recruiters at your organization that love to be on, you know, LinkedIn or and, and give them a better understanding of what to look for how to how to really better search and some do a great job. But what I find it’s those internal recruiters, maybe those third party recruiters and companies do a good better job. But, you know, they need to, they need to have a better profile, they need to show up better. And that’s but that’s why I teach my clients how to don’t target recruiters and HR, its target those people in the same or similar positions. They know transferable skills better. And again, what if it, there’s something in it financially in it for them? You know, as far as a referral?
Damon Pistulka 32:40
Yeah, that’s true. That is something just, uh, well, just about many companies have referral bonuses for internal employees. So it does, it’s, you can actually help that person that you may know, or one of your friends know, make a little money, and you get the right opportunity. And that is something that people say, if you’re listening here, he just dropped something there that you really need to consider because that company could likely have a referral bonus. And by asking your friend to introduce you to their friend, you could be helping them do a favor for their friend by getting that getting that referral bonus. Oh, 100%. That’s cool. So what? This I’ve heard a lot about this, and I want to see what you get for feedback. What are some of the negative feedback things that you hear from people who are applying for jobs, about hiring managers and the process and some of the things that, that you see people hiring or companies hiring, that they could do better?
David Alto 33:39
Sure. taking too long, right, I applied today. Maybe? So maybe I applied today, let’s say three weeks later, I got an interview. You know, not following up, right? You know, they listen. I know, recruiters are busy, everybody’s busy, but darn it. Listen, if I’m interviewing Stephanie today, and I say, Steph, I’m gonna recruiter, Stephanie, I’m gonna follow up with you in the next two weeks, because our manager is actually on vacation next week. So I’m going to follow up with you in two weeks. So I’m just going to drop you an email and just let you know where you are in this process, because maybe we’re putting her forward right? Well, then that’s easy. I either get on my phone or my Outlook or whatever calendar system and I put a note in there immediately.
I know we’re all busy, but we all have these. I
David Alto 34:34
mean, back in my previous career, my managers would jokingly say Please, somebody steal Dave’s phone because they follow us up with everything. None of micromanager because, micromanager I think some people just think that when your boss follows up with you that they’re a micromanager and that’s not the case of job. You know, we got to follow up right But, you know, put it in there that you’re going to follow up with that person. Right. And you know, what I don’t see with a lot of recruiters in HR. And this is baffles me. So back in the day, when I did a lot of hiring, if there was two great candidates, I can only hire one. I put that person in my calendar to check up with me like every three or four, six months, right? Because what if I had another opportunity, but that person was like, spot on? They were um, yeah. But I just couldn’t well put something in there. Keep their resume in their in your file. You know, some people say, Oh, my gosh, you can’t do just do it anyway. I mean, and then. So really not getting back to people. But companies take so long, yeah, to make decisions. And let’s, let’s not have somebody have to go through five interviews. I understand an initial interview by a recruiter, I understand initial interview by a hiring manager, maybe one more, maybe, maybe, or just do a you know, in a panel interview, right. But the process does not have to take very long, just the right people need to be involved. And I know companies don’t want to ever give out feedback on somebody’s resume or why they didn’t get hired. I didn’t care. I did it. I did. I would reach out to somebody and say, Listen, we hired somebody with more experience, here’s what I would suggest. Or again, I would always give feedback on the resume whether they wanted it or not. And you know, so again, that’s that’s the big things is not hearing back the process taking too long. I’m gonna call out a company for a minute, Oracle. Sometimes we’ll tell people, Hey, we interviewed you today. We love you. Just let you know, we’ll be we’ll be back in touch in six months. Nobody, they’re not going to stick around for six months, unless they’re currently employed. And yeah, can wait. Right? A lot of people aren’t currently employed, I’d say the whole process does not have to take very long. You got to look yourself in the mirror and how come management doesn’t realize how come leadership doesn’t realize that it is taking as long as it is it is it does. They got to know right? make something happen, put your foot down. You know, people are good. People are not going to wait around for a very long time. You’re losing great people because of the length of time that you’re taking to do that. So shame on you.
Damon Pistulka 37:39
Yeah, yeah, that’s for sure. Well, I’m glad we talked about that for a moment, because it really is important for companies to understand, you know, what, what the other side? It feels like, right? I mean, it’s, I know, you’re busy and everything, but there are people and like you said that, that will be very disappointing. If you got that call and said You’re perfect. And we were gonna reach out in six months. It’s like, I you know, I could be in the street in six months, you know, then
David Alto 38:12
why posted? Why posted? I mean, it makes it makes no sense. So yeah,
Damon Pistulka 38:19
yeah. That’s, that’s great. So when you talk about LinkedIn, and you talk about so people, you got plenty of free resources on your website, I and on your profile, you share lots of stuff want to say, hey, go check that out on on David’s website, if you had and people are listening, do that. And then coming back to that, what are some of the things that just like the top one or two things that you think if I’m a job seeker on LinkedIn, I need to be doing on LinkedIn?
David Alto 38:55
Sure. It’s, well, it’s definitely making sure, obviously, you’ve had, you know, everything filled out that you’ve moved the content from your resume into each of the jobs, making sure that headline really, really shares, you know, what you do, and maybe why you do it. But again, the biggest one is you see that job that’s perfect before applying search for people on LinkedIn doing the same or similar at that job, maybe even if they live in the same city or state because they might be more apt to reply to you if they do. You know, this. LinkedIn is a very giving community. If you message enough people, you’re going to hear back from some and the worst thing that’s going to happen is you’re going to be connecting to more people in industries and companies in positions that you want anyway. But if you had one thing to do, and you slow down on you’re applying and you just did that before, you’re gonna get some good traction that way. I mean, it’s not always going to land an interview or a job but it is time well spent. Because otherwise you’re just competing against 204 100 800 1000 other applicants, if you can get a referral, you’re at least gonna get a recruiter call and get somebody or multiple people potentially in your corner. And that’s why, I mean, if you have an amazing LinkedIn profile, and then you’re messaging people, why wouldn’t they want to reply to you? Right? You know, regardless how many connections or followers you have, when you show up better on LinkedIn, for whatever reason, it just great things happen.
Damon Pistulka 40:28
Yeah, yeah, that’s, that’s for sure. It’s, it’s so important for people when they when they think about this, because that that LinkedIn profile is really their brand. And as their career progresses, that brand grows along with them. And I think you mentioned this before being active on LinkedIn a little bit to whatever your time allows, and, and building those networks really is key to this, because that you’ve mentioned many times as secondary connections, those people that you may know, that may know somebody in those businesses is where it’s really the goal is at
David Alto 41:05
100%, I have I have four point 2,000,002nd degree connections. And that’s because a lot of my connections have, you know, a good number of connections. But, you know, I might a client might say, Dave, do you know anybody that works at that small company? Well, the answer may be no, but it might be safe to say to say, I at least know somebody that knows somebody. And that’s so much closer. And that’s why just, you know, not just connecting with people, a lot of people say, Well, if they don’t work in my industry, or if they don’t work at my company, and I want to connect with them, I would, I would highly suggest that you change your frame of mind regarding that, because in our personal lives, we don’t only hang around with people than to what we do, or work at our company. So again, why not broaden that out a little bit, just connect with people that like minded, or whatever. But it’ll serve you well into the future by connecting to more and more people?
Damon Pistulka 42:07
That’s for sure. That’s for sure. So
what, what do
Damon Pistulka 42:13
you think, is the most fun that you have doing what you do?
David Alto 42:22
I guess it’s, you know, somebody’s applying for like, eight months, getting no responses, and then all of a sudden, you know, with that, what I’ve been able to provide them, they’re getting the phone ring, right are getting that schedule a call. And, you know, for me, it’s when I when I’m writing somebody, someday, I can actually maybe see different things that they might be able to do or, you know, I tell people listen, you know, you’ve been doing this for a long time. It’s time isn’t it time for maybe applying for those positions for the next level? And they’re like, maybe I don’t know, if I could do that. Well, on paper you can so why not? What’s holding you back? And then sometimes some of those people will apply for those, like, Dave, I got it. And I’m like, well give me 10% Then, you know, that’s that’s of the rate but again, because look, a lot of times we’re you know, there were very prideful, you know, we’re like, oh, I don’t know if I can do that job. It’s like, well, you know, your boss’s job, you’re your bosses, right? And person, you’ve been doing this and this, you know that? Why not? Right now, if he looked at a job description, and like, you could do it, so why not? Again, your resume should speak to what you’ve done, what you’re doing and what you can do in the in the future? And why not apply for those, you know, next positions?
Damon Pistulka 43:44
Yeah. Because, like you said, you’re seeing something they may not see. And, and you can help along with that. We’ve got a lot of comments in here. I’m gonna drop a few of them here. We got Ahmed, thanks for stopping by today, Ahmed. And then now let’s do the talking about companies using AI. Yeah, they’ve been doing this for a long time. With the ATS is in it’s just changing with AI some but that’s been some there’s been a long time. And then there, there are some people talking about AI and resume writing. We won’t get into that. But LinkedIn is a new social security. Yeah, it is a must. That’s for sure. You really got to be thinking about that. And MD. Thanks. Thanks. I’m glad you’re enjoying it today. And then Casey, dropping by thanks so much. Now, this is another one from cons. Dan tonos. Some good recruiters take their job seriously. And there there are there are some good recruiters out there to care about what they do and and you’ll see him you’ll see him when you talk to him. You know, I can still remember my The recruiter that got me a job, because I’ve only used one. He still talks every once in a while. And I haven’t worked for somebody else for 20 years. But
David Alto 45:10
the successful ones, they’re successful for a reason. So yeah, yeah, that’s for sure. But the one thing is
Damon Pistulka 45:18
Deanna says she interviewed a board of 10 people for three rounds. Oh, my goodness. That’s it. That’s not
David Alto 45:25
even a guarantee. Like, okay, the decision maker how many decision makers are there was the janitor there too? Yeah. Yeah. It’s
Damon Pistulka 45:35
like, it’s like, how would you ever make a decision? Everybody just goes around everybody shakes her head and wonder yes or no. And then they vote on the on the wall or something. That’s, that’s pretty ridiculous. Now I have heard of some nonprofits that get a little bit a little bit out there with with some of their hiring practices. But
David Alto 45:54
when I hear 10 people or I hear like eight interviews, I hear a lot. I’m not trusting your your teams. That’s what I automatically hear is no trust, good people to hire, oh, my gosh,
Damon Pistulka 46:07
this, this might be a reason why not to go work for that company, in and of itself.
David Alto 46:13
Empower your people to make a damn decision? How does it take 10 people to make a decision?
Damon Pistulka 46:18
Yeah, that’s for sure. But thanks so much for everyone for dropping your comments today and listening and and so before we get off here, though, David, you’re actually starting a new service. You started this recently doing some outplacement services for companies? Well, what what kind of pulled you into that?
David Alto 46:37
Sure. So you know, for me, it was having a conversation with a company seven or eight months ago. And I found out how much outplacement service was costing per person. And I’m like, huh, and then they go, Oh, but they provide this and this and this and this, and I go, so let me ask you why. Why are you having you know, why do you need this outplacement and they go? Well, we want to we want, you know, our brand to be, you know, great, because yes, we’re laying off people that we care about them. They provide them with this as part of their severance package. And I get it okay. And I go, but what do you want? Well, we want them to find the career that they want fast. And what do you think they want? They want a job quick. Okay. So thinking of all the services that you’re paying extra for? I go, What if you found somebody that provided them a great resume and cover letter, understood how to edit it in the future so they can edit it? Explain them about LinkedIn most out, I’m gonna say most outplacement services do a very poor job of sharing networking on LinkedIn and just very in various things regarding LinkedIn. So that is a big piece. And then I go, Well, what is that? What is that outplacement service stayed with them for like five months after this whole thing. And like every time they were gonna apply for a job, we would look at our network on LinkedIn, see if we can make an introduction? Do you think you would need all these other services? And they’re like, Well, if it lands in the job, then no. And I’m like, Well, what if we provided that a lot cheaper. So that seven month that conversation seven months ago came to knock knock Ring Ring? Okay, Dave, we want to we were doing this with we’re doing it so so again, but you don’t need to over deliver. So because these, your employees want to feel good about getting a job quick. You want to you know, keep your brand going as an employer that cares for their people, even when they exit the company and I get it. So a lot of people don’t need maybe career advice or more hand holding or other like 10, other calls, maybe some interview prep, and we provide that as well. But they don’t need all these other things. I mean, some of these companies are paying one to 3000 per employee, when they could save a little bit more of that money. Maybe, you know, spend it on whatever, give the person more seven, I don’t care. But a lot of outplacement services are just providing too much and they’re doing it they’re providing too much to get more and I get it get more per head but for me, it’s about you know, helping the helping the person knowing what it’s like to get their job eliminate, especially on their honeymoon. And know that struggle. So that’s why that’s why we’re doing this. This outplacement now that’s awesome and And we can’t wait to get started here in about next week. So
Damon Pistulka 50:03
that’s awesome. Well, David, thanks so much for being here today. If people want to reach out to you, David alto on LinkedIn, that’s how they should get a hold of you. Or
David Alto 50:15
if they message me on LinkedIn, it’s not my VA or some bot. It’ll be me replying to you. So yeah, that’s the best way is, you know, follow me. I can still accept a few more connections before I maxed out 30,000. But yeah, just message me on LinkedIn. And I’ll be happy to chat.
Damon Pistulka 50:35
Awesome. Well, David, thanks so much for being here today. I want to thank everyone that listened and thanks for everyone in the chat. You really are hitting the chat hard and Kosis thanks for giving me the short version of your name. helps me a lot. And we’ll be back again later this week. Hang out Dave. And we’ll talk wrap things up. Sorry. Bye.