• 53:40
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Fractional COO, business growth, chaos elimination, accountability, operational infrastructure, team accountability, business processes, leadership, small business impact, business value, business transformation, business systems, business exit, business consistency, business operations.
SPEAKERS
Damon Pistulka, Jen Hamilton
Damon Pistulka 00:08
All right, everyone, welcome once again. The faces of business. I am your host, Damon Pistulka, and I am excited because we’ve got a wonderful guest with us here today, and we have Jen Hamilton, and we are going to be talking about growing your business without the chaos. Oh, are you there, Jen? Or did you freeze up? Oh, I think we’ve frozen up here. We’ll see what happens in just a second. That is interesting, because she literally, we were just talking, and it worked, worked out just fine. So we’ll give Jen just a moment here, and I’m sure she’s going to get back online, but we will get started. Yep, she dropped off. So she’ll be back in just a moment here, and we’ll get going with Jen Hamilton, and this has been a long time since this happened, but I hope everyone’s having a great week. We will be rolling here with Jen shortly and getting this thing going. So in the 2025, we’re getting into the second month of the year. January went through very quickly. Lots of good stuff happening world. Here we have some new initiatives coming out with some marketing things that are happening, some new system things that we’re releasing with clients, so that’s been a lot of fun. But when we’re talking about the topic today, you know Jen Hamilton, with Hamilton CEOs, has been been a fractional COO for a long time. It’s got a fractional coo collective, and we will see here, if she can get back in. Hopefully we can get started. We may have to reschedule and have her back again if she can’t, but that’s the way that goes on. Say, Sophie, thanks for stopping by today and saying hello. Glad that you can be with us today, and we will, let’s see how this works here, and we’ll continue going. So if anyone’s got any questions out there, let’s go ahead and fire them away until Jen gets back in here. And we’ll stick around for a few minutes and Jen can’t get back on we shall give this thing another try another day. But couple things that are happening this week, if you know, I do a show with Kurt Anderson. We do those Mondays and Fridays at 932 Pacific, 1232 Eastern, and we are having another show this afternoon. Let me pull up the guest, because I was not ready for this. So getting that so how many people out there have been doing live streams and have this happen? This is this happens once in a while to us. I think it’s an inevitable thing. All right, who we got coming up on Friday, on manufacturing, e commerce, success. I gotta check it out myself, because it’s on my profile and I didn’t remember who we have scheduled. That’s pretty bad. But we will get it here. Oh, man, too funny. Too funny. All right, let’s see the events we have coming up. Oh, we are going to be talking about the sneak peek behind the scenes at industrial the industrial marketing summit for 2025 in Austin. If you are an industrial marketer, and you have not attended the industrial marketing Summit, you might want to check it out. Did the industrial marketing Summit? 2025 is going to be held in Austin, the last 27th and 28th of February. I think 26th 27th 28th of February. It’s a great thing. Lots of awesome people. We’ve we’ve interviewed quite a few of them already, and it’s been a lot of fun. So Well, I think that Jen is obviously having some technical difficulties here. Here she is. She’s back again. All right, back again. So sorry,
Jen Hamilton 04:19
I had to switch computers like, What great timing. As soon as you said my name, I’m gone.
Damon Pistulka 04:25
That’s awesome. Jen, well, again, I wanted to tell everyone today, faces of business. We’ve got Jen Hamilton from Hamilton. CEOs here today, long time, fractional coos, you’re going to be talking about growing your business without the chaos I was filling time, Jen, I knew you’d be back and ready to go. Thank you, David, as we always like to start the show off, Jen, and you’ve got an incredible background. Let’s talk a little bit about your background and how you got into being a fractional COO,
Jen Hamilton 04:57
no problem. Well, thank you again for having me. And putting up with my technical difficulties. I appreciate that I started my career as a CPA, so a lot of people go into the operations or the COO side through different avenues. My Avenue was a financial side of things, and it’s part of why I’m still a nut for data and processes and just understanding how it all comes together. And I just really feel like the financials tell such a story of the business. One of the things that really I got excited about as I rose in the ranks through public accounting was the leadership and team side of things. So when I left public accounting, I really leaned into understanding human nature, how to motivate, how to hold people accountable, of them take initiative. And it’s actually funny, I went through the realm of actually an education consultant. So I was working on behalf of different schools, school districts, and eventually the whole state of California’s Education Department, teaching teachers how to better engage students. And one of the things I like to say is that, what better place to learn leadership, management and accountability than getting teachers to get students who aren’t paid to be there like they’re the hardest people to get engaged and get excited? So that really gave me an insight into the kind of the other side of it is, how do we bring the systems and processes together with the people, because when you really put all those together, that’s where you’re a strong business, that it just sort of naturally evolved into doing more work to work with leaders and managers, and putting in the right processes and data and ways to hold each other accountable. And it evolved into taking on coo roles in a fractional sense, because I always have loved the small business world. I have my own reasons that the small businesses touch my heart, but really they touch the community, the impact that they have on jobs, on offering services and products. It’s just a huge ripple effect. So anytime I can really help them be stronger, is what makes my heart sing, and to be able to do the COO position for many small businesses really kind of bring everything together. Because I believe that so many businesses are started by experts in their field, yes, experts in business, so bringing the business acumen and the leadership and the support to their business is really what a fractional CEO is about for multiple businesses at the same time. So it’s just this lovely culmination of my strange background, yes, into what allowed me to just really make a huge difference, and see the difference in the impact these small businesses make on their team, their clients, their the people who are part of their families, that are, you know, connected to their employees. It’s just, it’s just such a fun way to see how they can be even better at what they do.
Damon Pistulka 07:57
Yes, yes. And I forget how much of the like it’s like, 80 or 90% of the employment in the United States is in small business, even though we know the big companies, you know who they are, but the the sheer numbers of small businesses dwarfs that and the employees that work for them. And you’re right, these small businesses are affecting the community. They’re they’re they’re helping people, you know, put their kids in college, take them to Little League, whatever it is, you know, out to eat. It’s all this kind of stuff that they’re doing. And it’s so much fun hearing and talking with people that are working with these small business because they make a difference in in everything around us every day.
Jen Hamilton 08:38
Absolutely you can’t, you can’t really do anything in your day without somehow being touched by small business more so than even large businesses. It’s really, if you think about it, I mean schools, even, you know, just the the different folks on your street, you know. And a lot of folks are also even franchise owners, to an extent you know, like, if you really look at it, most people are a simple owner trying to do good by their customers and clients. And yet again, they don’t necessarily know how to make their business Great,
Damon Pistulka 09:13
yes, and that’s today, you know, talking about growing your business law chaos, and I had to get this off of your LinkedIn profile, because you are the secret force who shifts your business from chaos to practically running itself. Now that that’s a that’s a bold statement there. So we’re going to get into that a little bit today.
Jen Hamilton 09:35
It is, it is. Well, that’s the power of good operations. Yeah. I mean, I love being the conduit for it, but it’s, it’s really not so secret, after all. But I like to say I’m the secret force, because I’m kind of like the Wizard of Oz behind the curtain. I don’t like to be seen. I just like to make things happen and put that, that owner, that team, in the forefront, get the. To look great, and then sort of, we make it in. The magic happen behind the scenes.
Damon Pistulka 10:05
Very cool, very cool. So when you when you’re coming into these businesses, what are some of the common threads, the common threads that you see when you’re you’re walking into these and talking to these small business owners. The biggest thing
Jen Hamilton 10:22
I see, and I think this is the biggest sign that something is going on, is there’s two things that most people are like, how does it have to do with operations? But you know, we’ll see how what you think one is having people that are on your team that aren’t accountable. They don’t do what they say. Number two is those folks don’t take initiative. They’re looking for direction. And what is really behind those two things isn’t always the person who could be but it really means you don’t have a clear operating infrastructure. They don’t know what to do, they don’t know how to do it, they don’t know how to report to you what they’ve done. They don’t know how to make decisions. It’s really an operational infrastructure breakdown. But the biggest symptoms, especially for those owners who are just like, why is it all me? Why do I have to make every decision? Why can’t they do it on their own? Why can’t they just do what they say? Those are a sign that you’re missing the operations. It’s not your fault. It’s what most people deal with. They’re just, you know, kind of by default, like, alright, you know it’s not like you stop and say, Hey, before I hire this person, or before I assign this work, what’s the best operational practice? No one thinks like that. You just do your thing. You hire someone. You don’t really stop and, like, intentionally put in Good, good, solid business practices, at least most people don’t, yes,
Damon Pistulka 11:42
and I think that what what happens is, just like you said, they a business owner will get busy, and they’ll say, I have to hire somebody. And they’ll hire someone, and they bring that person in and they say, here’s what I want you to do. They’ll walk through it with them a couple times, and then that’s all and then they’re just off. Yep, you wish, yeah, yeah, go ahead. You fish. Your turn to catch a fish now,
Jen Hamilton 12:09
yeah, it’s just crazy, like they they’re never going to be successful with assumptions, and that’s what that whole thing is built on. I assume you know what to do. They assume they know what you want them to do. And and we always know within our personal relationships, how dangerous, especially if you’re married, how dangerous assumptions can be. And it’s the same in business, yes,
Damon Pistulka 12:33
yes. So as as you’re let’s talk about fractional coos in specific. You know, many people fractionals have been around for a while now. They got really popular, I think in the last five years or so. Let’s talk about what the fractional what is the real benefit for this small business owner to consider a fractional, fractional coo? Sure.
Jen Hamilton 13:00
I think the thing too is that if you’ve only really been in small business, you don’t really know what a COO can do or should do. So once you understand that, then you start to see, oh, okay, you know even a part time person doing that would help. So one of the things I think, would just understand that the COO is the second in command. They are your partner in executing on the strategy. You are the big idea person. You’ve got the great relationships. You’re leading the culture. Who’s going to make those ideas happen, who’s also going to just gently filter those ideas and say, Yeah, but you know, so you need that partner. I like to think of it is that every business is like a brain, just like our body has our analytical side and our creative side, so does a business, and as that owner, you’re bringing in those creativity you’re bringing in those ideas. Here’s what we should do next. But when you don’t have a co then you also have to balance yourself with the analytical. How do we do it? What should we do? What should I do first? What’s the impact if we do this, and that’s that analytical side of the brain is really what the CEO is doing. It’s balancing you out. So you can have that creativity, you can continue to do your craft, but you have the analytical like, let’s figure out what to execute. Who’s going to do that? What? So when you bring in a fractional COO, really, what you’re doing is you’re allowing yourself to sit in your true CEO seat and have that partner in crime, essentially, to help you execute on the strategy. Get your team to execute, get your team to be trusted, and that’s why I say a lot of times, you have the chaos, because it’s all on you. It’s all on your shoulders. You’re trying to keep it all straight, and somehow, like, occasionally, like, Hey, can you help me? So to have that CO really help lead your team, to get the execution of what your big ideas and even small. Ideas are. It gives you the freedom to do the job you want to do and you should be doing instead of the job you probably don’t want to do, which is making everyone do it.
Damon Pistulka 15:09
Yeah, yeah. Well, and that’s that is when you see it in action, it really is something, because it’s hard for a founder or a leader in a business that has had to do all those things to bring in a fractional coo talk about that a little bit and that kind of some of the adjustments that that they need to make.
Jen Hamilton 15:35
One of the things that that I like to start with, is their own self awareness of their business. And so with my clients, part of our onboarding process is to quickly get to know the businesses as fast as possible. And we have a diagnostics we go through so that they can kind of rate themselves, scale one to five, each of the critical elements that you need to be able to operate and have a strong foundation. We have them just say one through five where I’m at most clients come back to me and be are embarrassed because they thought they’re doing a Well, alright. But when they see what are the actual things that a good, solid business has in place, they realize, Oh my gosh, there’s so much I’m missing. And so I like to start with that self awareness, because it helps them to see there’s a lot I need to do. There’s instant overwhelm when they finish it. And there’s a little like, are you in the red? Are you in the green? Are you in the yellow? And I most of them are in the red, or maybe a little bit touch in the yellow. So they are start to understand that. Like, if I really want to run this well, and I need to put these things in place. I can’t do it all. And that starts to warm them up to the idea of someone who understands what everything is from an operational point of view, how to get your team to do it is very refreshing for them to be like, Okay, I see what’s broken now, and I see that it needs to be done, and I don’t have to figure it out, because a lot of times, if you’re a small business owner, your options are limited in terms of what you can afford. Yeah, you’ll go get a business coach or take a business course or a seminar, and they may be telling you the exact same things that came out on our diagnostic, but they don’t necessarily help you to make that happen, like a fresh coo does. Yes, the other option that businesses will do is they’ll hire maybe someone up and coming a little bit younger, maybe even executive assistant, and say, like, Okay, you helped me run my business, but now you have someone that doesn’t actually know how to run a business, or ever have before. So what they’re good at is taking direction from Neil. We’re still missing the piece of you don’t know how to do these things. And so they become very open to a fractional coo who can not only strengthen their business, but be, for the sometimes first time, a person that’s actually in their business enough to run ideas by and help make decisions. Because even a business coach, and I love I love business coaches, but there is a lack of understanding their actual business, and we have to know their business, because we are helping run it,
Damon Pistulka 18:22
yeah, yeah. And that’s, that’s cool, because you we brought, I mean, you hit those points. Well, the hiring the younger, imagine not even younger, less experienced person, and them coming in sometimes is an option. But then again, you, if you’re the owner, you still have to tell them what to do, get them up to speed. They don’t know systems. They don’t know business process, like, like a fractional coo would that has been there before, done it implemented. And really help people. As you said, a business coach can tell you what to do, but they’re usually not going to help you implement what you need to do, and that’s really where the fractional coo brings the experience and the implementation knowledge along with the what should we do? But not only that, how do we get it implemented in your specific situation? Yeah,
Jen Hamilton 19:15
exactly, and with your team, because the business coach, again, great ideas. They it’s great to have that outside, but you kind of get the best of both worlds with a fractional COO, because we are being able to give that outside trusted advisor perspective. We also work every week with other businesses, yeah? So I my, some of my clients really love it. I’m like, huh, so funny. Two days ago, I was just dealing with this with another client, and we get they get to kind of cheat off of each other without having to go into their business and spy on them, because we’re there, bringing the best practices from each client to each other, and not just like from that week, but we’ve been doing this for so long. We bring. A collective wisdom from our clients, from what we’ve seen works and what doesn’t work. So we really save them a lot of trial and error as well. Yes,
Damon Pistulka 20:08
that’s one thing that Paul Daniels Junior talks about, friend of mine out of Texas. He talks about bringing different solutions outside of your industry together into your industry, because they make such a big difference. And I can’t tell you how many times that’s happened to me. You can be setting in a manufacturing setting, and something that was working in maybe a construction or a medical or whatever else, setting is really applicable to what they’re dealing with right there. And now, I
Jen Hamilton 20:38
love that Damon, because I don’t know about you, but I find that you learn a lot from a different industry, and just because it helps be more creative again, it brings to light that creative side of your mind, because it allows for you to see it in a different way. Otherwise, we’re so stuck in just seeing how we’ve always done it, but to see a different industry, I’m like, Hmm, I wonder if I can apply that, it gives you a whole new way to solve problems or create new opportunities.
Damon Pistulka 21:06
Yes, yes. So as you’re as you’re doing this, and you’re going through and helping these companies, one of the things that were, I spend some time, and you know, we’ve talked about this before, is when business owners are, are getting to the point that they may be thinking about exiting their business or slowing down, or some other things. You know, the things that I really see that a fractional CEO can help with are a lot of the things that impact value, impact saleability and and those aspects of the business. So in your experience, what are some of the things when you go from chaos to eliminating chaos, what are some of the things that you feel and see in the business as the improvements are coming around? I
Jen Hamilton 21:55
think one of the biggest things is whether we like it or not, our our people are our biggest asset and our biggest problem. Yes, it’s always around team, and sometimes even you as a business owner, may not like me saying that, but a lot of times, you’ve also created challenges in yourself. And I think one of the things that I love about what you do, Damon, is you really guide them to increase their value, and it gives them options, right? You can, like you said, Maybe I want to slow down, maybe you want to sell. And one of the things that I love about partnering with someone like you is I’m not as tapped into exactly what’s going to create value. So to be able to have you say, Hey, if you do this, this is going to give them, as a business owner, options. And so to me, that’s really helpful. One of the things I think, is, even if you’re not looking at to sell, wouldn’t you want your own business to be more valuable and easier to run? So if we think about it, flip it from a different direction. What if you wanted to buy your own business? Would you Is it easy to run? Can you trust a team? Can you trust the process? Do you get data to know how well it’s doing without having to go ask everyone? What are we working on? If you can’t say yes, you don’t have a very valuable company and and you shouldn’t want to buy it every day. You should want to fix it so that it is actually something you trust. That’s why we say to move to practically running itself. I don’t care if you want to buy it, sell it. You know, whatever it is that should be the goal of every business, because it gives you strength, stability, value. And I would say to you, Damon, like, what do you see is that you know certain things that are operationally struggling. But what do you see that gives the most bang for their buck if they start working on it first? Well,
Damon Pistulka 23:48
I think the one thing is that we always talk about when you’re getting ready to sell businesses owner dependency. I mean, it’s in a small business, it’s, it’s almost, you really can’t not have some of that, right? Because, as you said from the very beginning, we usually get into business, into a small business, because we’re good at something. That means we’re technically good at something. We’re a plumber, we’re an engineer, we’re a accountant, whatever it is we’re good at that. We’re not good at business, as you said, and what that means is you often be the central hub of information. Where do we go for the questions to get answered? And sometimes, like you said, even they’re the people that are doling out what, who does what, and really owner dependency is one of the biggest things, because if the business, if you want to leave your business and you want to sell your business, but if you are the heart and soul of the business to the point that it’s going to be awful hard to run it without you, then you really have to consider, as you said, Would you buy your business if you are you and you weren’t in it? I.
Jen Hamilton 25:00
Ah, yeah, I think that’s key. I love what you said, if you’re not in it, is there a business if you’re not in it? If there isn’t, that’s when you have to rely on your infrastructure. And that’s, I think, what we’re both really getting them to. So thank you for bringing that. Because it’s it is really what, even for my clients who maybe aren’t ready to sell, someday you’re going to get out of this, or maybe you just want to take a three week vacation and have no one call you. Yes,
Damon Pistulka 25:29
yes. And that’s why I think it’s so good to talk about eliminating chaos, because chaos is often caused by you don’t have your your your processes, your people. There’s all a myriad of things that fractional coos can do a great deal to address. Because, as you said, I may not want to exit, but if I’ve eliminated the chaos, I’m much more able to do it when I want.
Jen Hamilton 25:55
Yes, yes. Freedom.
Damon Pistulka 25:58
Yeah. Give them a choice. Exactly. Sorry. I interrupted you there. But the one thing I’ve got, because I got a question for you, so we’re going to start eliminating the chaos. Where do you start?
Jen Hamilton 26:12
Most of the time the chaos is with, I’d say, often, a handful of people that have, and I’ll share some characteristics so you can do your own evaluation. If you’re listening to this, they’re a family member or friend. They have been there forever. They’re loyal. They’ve been there from the beginning, kind of thing. So there’s someone that you have, like, a personal attachment to, and they aren’t doing their job, or they’re not really encouraging or really making the culture better. So often times it’s this, it’s this attachment to somebody. It’s not always the case, um, it could be, you know, somebody new, but there’s usually an attachment to one, but one somebody, or multiple somebody’s that is truly dragging you down, and one, my mentor, Darren Hardy, I love what he says. He says, Are they an engine? Are they an anchor? So are they fueling and giving you, you know, like, if you think at the back of the boat, are they an engine that’s like pushing you forward and making you better? Are they an anchor and dragging you behind. So the biggest chaos, whether we like it or not, is our people. So if there are a handful of folks that are causing disruption, they’re not actually making things better. That’s where we have to start. It’s not easy, but I will tell you, one of the great things about Fractional CO is that I’m the bad guy? Yes,
Damon Pistulka 27:42
yes, yeah, it, I mean, it is because you’re talking about it could be family members that that may not be in the right role, or may not need to be in the business any longer.
Jen Hamilton 27:55
Yeah, it’s difficult, but it’s much easier when I’m the big bad wolf coming in to cause the conversation. And you know, it’s, it’s, it’s having those difficult conversations with people you’re attached to. That is usually what has caused you to get into chaos, because you’re not having the conversations that stop the chaos.
Damon Pistulka 28:17
Yes, yes. And that is, oh, you just hit the heart of it right, because we we don’t want to have the difficult conversation, because they’re uncomfortable. Nobody wants to do them right. So what a lot of owners do, and we all do this to some extent in our lives, is we put up with it. We We suffer through it. And as you grow a business, those same kind of things just grow and grow and grow and grow and grow. And they get they they spread. And it gets worse and worse. And if you don’t take care of it, you have a much bigger problem down the road
Jen Hamilton 28:55
and where it gets even and it absolutely spreads. And I want to be kind of clear how it spreads? Because you don’t, you think it’s that one person, but it’s the acceptance of that person, or maybe a few people, that is giving people unspoken permission to do the same thing. It’s just, it really does spread. Mm, hmm,
Damon Pistulka 29:17
yeah. I mean, it’s, it just an easy example, if, if Damon is in the business and is in his sister Tina’s working, that’s my sister’s name, she wouldn’t do this. But my sister Tina is supposed to be at work at eight o’clock, but she always comes about nine and, you know, maybe 10 sometimes when she feels like it. What? What kind of example does that set for everyone else? Yeah,
Jen Hamilton 29:40
it’s permission to do what is not really accepted.
Damon Pistulka 29:44
Yeah, yeah. And these kind of expectations
Jen Hamilton 29:47
without realizing you’re setting the expectations. Yes,
Damon Pistulka 29:52
yes. That’s a great point because, and a great point also about you being the fractional coo you can come in and. And identify that you can come in and have the difficult conversations with them in the room, yeah, and and coach them the other person through it, decide what happens and it gets resolved. And it gets resolved with much less personal stress for the business owner, right?
Jen Hamilton 30:20
Well, and I think one thing to say too, is like, I don’t want to scare people away, like, Oh my gosh. You know, a fractional CO is going to come and be the hatchet queen or king, right? No, what we really do is we have the same intention as you we want it to work with who’s there, and sometimes it’s the system around them that needs to change. So we try everything to make it work with those people. We support you, on getting clear expectations, on having accountability, on finding their gifts, maybe changing them to a different role where they’re going to be. We try everything to make it work first. And that’s also sometimes a difficult conversation, but it’s actually if you really think about it, this is a much more especially if you truly care about these people. This is a more caring way to lead, is to find what’s going to work for you and for them and for the company. That’s the conversation that’s behind the difficult conversation, right? It’s like, yes, the intention is good, our intention is good. Your intention is good, but the execution is what is failing because of the fear of having to say what doesn’t want to be said. Yet we come from a very nurturing, very supportive, very direct though and straight approach to these conversations so that we can actually do our best to kind of save and repair what has been somewhat harmed. And quite frankly, even if it doesn’t go well, and you do find that they don’t like the accountability, or they don’t like the expectations, because they like the freedom they had before, and now it’s getting a little harsher. One they’re going to blame me, so that’s kind of nice. But two, what I find is that when they look back in their life, more often than not, whether it’s family member, friends or just a loyal person, that you finally had to let go because you tried everything and they just weren’t willing, they eventually can respect that, maybe not like it, but they can respect how it was handled, how we treat them human, how we gave them the best choice. And at the end of the day, it’s about being respected. It’s not about being liked. You’ve been doing all these things because you want to be liked, but I’m going to challenge you, to encourage you to choose to be respected for the leader that you are, instead of be liked for a person that you are. Yeah,
Damon Pistulka 32:45
that’s a huge thing. Because, as you said, too, it’s not just about going in and hatching job and people and moving them out. It’s about getting them in the right roles. Because sometimes, as a business grows right. I was really good at what I was doing, and then the business grew, and I was the only one in the room, and now I’m doing a different role, and that’s a role that I’m not really that good in. And sometimes it’s reallocate and move someone back into a different role, and someone else takes the role. And another thing that I’ve seen too, is that business owners are typically visionary people that don’t really get into the details, right so they may never have laid out this are these are the expectations. This is what I really need. And if you don’t do this, this is what everyone else sees, or this is how it hurts our customer, this is how it hurts our company. And sometimes just by bringing those, those things to bear and talking through them, people go, I never thought of that and and it moves things into a much better direction,
Jen Hamilton 33:50
absolutely, well, that’s the thing. It’s so hard to look in the mirror and and catch these things. So, yes, much better. That’s why I do love business coaches or consultants and things and fractional that’s what we do as well, is that we can see what you can’t see. We can help you feel like, okay, I thought something was up, and actually help you identify it. Because I would say, even though you can’t see it, your gut knows there’s something wrong, and so there’s a little piece of you that’s like, well, I didn’t want to hear it. There’s some relief in knowing, okay, I thought so,
Damon Pistulka 34:31
yes. And you know, as we’re as we’re talking about this, and we’re looking at the team, we’re looking at these people, and making this, you know, a priority, and really resolving some of these issues to make your business run better. People from the outside, walking in your business, see this, yeah, you may think you Oh, no, you know it’s internal. No, it’s not. No, it’s not. People can see this when they walk into your business. They can see it in the the way people talk to them. They can see. The way people walk around in the business. They can see the way they do their work. There’s all kinds of ways that these, these things, good or bad, affect how everyone, including the people inside and outside, perceive the business. Absolutely,
Jen Hamilton 35:14
yeah, I think that’s one of the things that’s really fun for me, because I have been in so many businesses, I think, you know, even just in the last like two and a half years, like 20 different companies. So you see a lot of different things in some way, shape or form. And the thing that I really like is that I see patterns, you know, I see similar things. And so I can almost have a crystal ball. And while I never make or at least I do my best not to make an assumption. I check my assumptions, but I do say to the business owners, let me guess, are you seeing this? Are you seeing this? And like, did you like have candid camera on me? And it’s because that outsider has seen so many things before. Now sometimes, I guess wrong, but I would say about 95% of the time, it’s not that I’m smart, it’s that I’ve seen it over and over and over again. It’s not like I can really read your mind. I just have seen it again and again and again.
Damon Pistulka 36:17
Yes, and you shouldn’t feel bad, because it is, it is the way many businesses are, and you just feel good about that, you know, taking the time to try to change it.
Jen Hamilton 36:25
Yeah, exactly. You’re definitely not alone. Yes,
Damon Pistulka 36:30
that’s for sure. Well, when we talk more about owner dependency, I think that that really is one of the big things is get your team highly functioning, get them in the right roles, you know, and that that really makes a difference the other, the other thing that I really see, and comes to mind with chaos, is inconsistent performance. Talk about that, and what you really see in some of the ways that a fractional CO can help to address that and reduce that chaos, the
Jen Hamilton 37:04
ebbs and flows of anything, whether it’s your cash flows, whether it’s your marketing and sales, you know your maybe you have happy customers or clients, and then you start getting complaints like there is, there is a lot of inconsistency that happens in a business. And when I see inconsistency, it’s a sign that there is a missing two things, missing process and a missing accountability. So usually with processes, version of accountability is a metric. Yep, what we and you’re not looking at them. Let’s just, let’s just say. So the thing that is really nice about seeing inconsistencies, it helps to narrow down, okay, what is missing in our process? Because, if not everyone, a lot of times, there is no consistent process, and that’s part of then what we know how to fix. Or maybe there is, like, I have a client. We were just working last week. She created these processes as the owner, and they use the processes, but they got so much bigger, they didn’t really train their people on the process, and then they really didn’t hold them accountable. And so the people just were doing whatever they thought, and they lost their efficiency, which meant they lost some of their profitability. And so that’s part of what we were talking about. We’re like, I’m like, you gotta take the next 90 days and get these people trained. And I said, the good news is you have good processes. So we narrowed it down to like, you gotta get them trained, and then you’ve gotta have accountability. So that’s the nice thing. Is, like, you know, you you can fix this by getting everyone doing the same thing, and by making sure they know how to do that, and then holding them to keep doing that. Because I’ll tell you what, we humans get a little bored sometimes and want to try it a different way. So accountability just helps us, like, stay in line, not to say that I’m against process improvement. Totally love innovation, but we don’t want to make innovation without it really being first tried. A lot of times they don’t first try the way that’s been proven.
Damon Pistulka 39:11
Yes, that’s a huge thing when you talk about process accountability, I always when, when, when we’re doing this and looking at preparing a business for the exit, right for the business for the exit. One of the things that really drives more consistency is exactly what you said, process and accountability. Because if a salesperson knows that I need to talk to five people every day to get the amount of sales I do, and if I put a five on the board today, because I talked to five people that I’m probably doing all right, and most people have a negative connotation or thought pattern when they think about accountability, and really at the end of the day, flipping that around. And saying, If I do five today, I’m doing what I’m supposed to do, and I’m doing well, and that’s what I think it’s really fun when you see a business, people in business, and everybody knows, you know, I’m going to need to do 10 of this, seven of that, whatever. And they do that. They’re walking around with their head high because they know they followed the process. They did the seven they were supposed to, or whatever it is, they did what they’re supposed to and the amount that they were and they can go home knowing they had a good day at work without the process and accountability. They’re running around trying to be busy, doing what they’re doing, trying to get it done. And what do they go home knowing I was really busy today and I did a lot of work, yeah, I was just running around doing work all day, not that I accomplished what I was supposed to do today, right? So I love that you
Jen Hamilton 40:53
bring that up. I think there is a lot of negativity around accountability, which is it has two sides of the impact. The leader doesn’t want to do it. They don’t want to look like a jerk, and then people don’t want to receive it, because most of the time, they do it so badly that they are a jerk, because it’s like, I’m fed up and I’m finally irritated. So they’re holding them accountable at their wits end, instead of, I love what you said, because when we really look at what causes happiness, especially in work, it’s when we feel valuable and productive. And knowing that I hit five calls, I know I’m valuable because I did what I was expected and I was productive, that’s what actually gives us happiness and joy in our work. So I I love how you like flip the switch on the accountability. I also think of as as feedback, right? Like this is just letting us know, as an individual and even as a company, is what we’re doing, working or not. So it’s it’s not about your judgment. It’s about feedback. And I, I’d like to say that ideally you have a team, if you look at like a really high level professional sports team, could you imagine them being effective without a scoreboard and their own individual stats? It doesn’t happen. That’s what accountability is in a business, right? You can’t, I can’t imagine, you know, we’re getting close to the Super Bowl here. I can’t imagine they do the Super Bowl without what quarter is it? What’s the score? Who, on what line, like, it’s all feedback to know, okay, have we met her goal or not of winning the Super Bowl?
Damon Pistulka 42:27
Yeah, yeah. And that’s great that to bring it around that way too, because the high performing people know that they’re doing well. And when you put accountability in the right way, because I’ve gone in, I’m sure you’ve heard it, oh, we can’t do that. That’s just nobody wants that. And it’s in the it’s in the the owner’s head, a lot of times, because they were in a bad situation with accountability, like you said, they can come around the wrong way. But when you do it positively, and you do it in a hey, Damon, you’re supposed to do five, and you’ve done three. Now, what can we do? What? What is making it hard? Do we have our systems not working? What’s not working to really get you to five? Because we know if you do five, everything works wonderfully down the road from there. And doing it like that is, is a way to to incorporate continuous improvement in the businesses, which I think is, is really cool, because what flips a switch after a while is we go, five is cool, but if I did this, I could get six, yes, yes. And you really start to get your teams pulling and when you get these people working together, it’s just like magic, right? Because you go, I’ve been in an E commerce businesses before, where one of the things that most people don’t think about in E commerce businesses, how long does it take to get that product off the shelf in a box and out onto the truck to go someplace? And if you’re shipping, you know, 5000 orders a week, that’s a big deal. And one of the things we did in in a business that I was working with a few years ago is we said, okay, let’s measure it first. We don’t care where it is right now, let’s measure it. And let us start asking people what they think we could do better. I love it, and in that time, and if I I think it was like it was 15 minutes from order to the box to the truck, and by the time, like, 90 days later, it was like at seven minutes. And then it got down to about four minutes when we got it done, when people started really getting into well, if I batch all my orders, and I go out and I pick six, and we go from one end of the warehouse to the other, so we’re being really efficient, and we’re only going down this once for the, you know, every two hours, or however they did it, you know, these, these kind of things that people get into this, and they have fun, and they try to try to do better. Because you said, like you said, I want to know I’m productive in a day. I’m not just busy. Me, and I’m not fighting fires. We’re planning our work, we’re executing our work, and it’s so much more fulfilling for the people doing it and being a part of it. Absolutely,
Jen Hamilton 45:11
I love what you said, and it was you said it in many different ways, but you kept saying, We and that’s a strong culture, like it’s mutual accountability. It’s mutually supporting each other. It’s mutually valuing each other, because someone is relying on your role to make their role better, and the we too about what can we do to put trainings or systems or technology around you? Has the leadership take ownership and responsibility? It’s not all on that individual. So many elements that you said around that we is really what makes that work, yeah,
Damon Pistulka 45:45
yeah. And I think that we, we won’t go down this road a long ways, but if I always have thought the best leaders take ultimate responsibility for everything, yes, and when they do that, you can really begin to work on the we, because it’s still, at the end of the day, I as a leader, I’m responsible, but it’s us working together to do what we need to do. And it is so much fun when you get the week, the we culture going, because you can get somebody, and this is the coolest darn thing. You can have somebody coming from HR doesn’t know anything about what you’re doing, walk out someplace and go, Why don’t we try that? And it’s the best idea in the place. And it’s just because the perspectives bring a different look and and different ideas, which is so much fun, because this, this, all of this, when we talk about getting a business out of the chaos, every little piece of this helps that and and then when we talk about where I deal with them, a lot is talking about value. The business runs more efficiently. It runs more consistently. You don’t have as much highs and lows. And when someone from the outside is looking that business in the terms of a sale, consistency is huge and and we can’t do that. So what are some of the things that you like them? We’re Whoa, God, we’re Whoo. We’re going, we’re getting close, and we’re, we’re over time, my goodness, but I want to, I want to talk about one more thing. Sure,
Jen Hamilton 47:18
we’re just having too much fun, yes, yes.
Damon Pistulka 47:21
I want to first of all, we got Steve Martin is dropped, a great comment. Jen Hamilton, so important to recognize the importance of recognition within the context of reality or reality we are actually doing the work we are deserving of being measured to what is actually happening. Awesome stuff. Thank you. HR on the floor, fresh eyes. I love it 100% and I tell you, if you, if you are doing a cross functional thing somewhere, get people that are never there. It’ll it’ll work, it’ll help. Every single time, I think it’s just so good. But before we go today, Jen, I do want to ask, what is the thing that you just love the most about what you do that wakes you up every day that just goes I gotta do this some more.
Jen Hamilton 48:18
Some people may think that it’s very geeky that you do operations in general. So something, something in me is already kind of tweaked. But I will say the thing that makes me so fulfilled is to see when the transformation occurs. And it can be little transformation or it can be big transformation. So, like, the moment the owner, I’ve had this happen so many times, and it’s just, you know, sometimes they would cry together, right? Yeah, they really see that they can get out of this. Like, they start to see, oh my gosh, I delegated something, and it worked. And like they there’s that hope is renewed and that something is changing those little, it’s those little moments that are so worth it. Because, you know, we’re now bringing in hope, some clarity, some inspiration, like, to me, that’s what it’s all worth there’s still messes to clean up along the way, but just starting to see a little bit each time, a little bit better and a little bit better. And there’s, there’s nothing better than having, for me, having them get how to make it better. So I don’t like to come in and take a business that’s wrapped around that owner, like you said, that that’s the owner dependent, and then make it fractional, COO, dependent. Like that’s not a solution. What I love is the little transformations in the owner and in the team and in just everyone starting to get like I see this differently because I want to talk about spread. I want to spread that empowerment, that clarity, that focus, that feeling of fulfillment and that, like we said, they’re productive, they’re. Clear. They’re excited to be there, and they’re part of a bigger mission. So it’s those little pieces that start to turn on. The light to be like, Oh my gosh, this is working. Look at what we’re doing. This is so great. Our clients are happy. Our customers happy. You know, like all of these things, it’s the little things. It’s not I wish it was like, okay, all of a sudden you walk in and everyone’s like, working well together. You have to celebrate those little wins. And to me, that’s what makes it all worth. It
Damon Pistulka 50:27
Awesome. That’s all I’ll say about that, because it is, and you talk about crying, it happens. And it happens because, you know, business is not an easy, not an easy road for these people that are in it and running the business, founding the business, doing that every day. It’s it’s a hard thing and and it is a wonderful experience when something as little as, like you said, we delegated something, and it worked, and you just go, wow, that’s one less thing that I have to worry about tomorrow.
Jen Hamilton 50:58
Yeah, absolutely. It’s a gift to everybody. It’s a gift. It’s a gift to the person who’s now feeling trusted by their leader. It’s Yeah, it’s amazing, yeah,
Damon Pistulka 51:09
yeah. Well, Jen, it’s been awesome having you on and it is just wonderful learning from you, hearing how you’re helping people in their businesses, grow their businesses and eliminate the chaos. So if someone wants to talk to you more about your fractional coo services, or just get some ideas from you, what’s the best way to do that? The easiest way
Jen Hamilton 51:33
is to go to my website, Hamilton CEOs. So Hamilton C, O, O, s.com, you can be able to actually even join our round tables. These are something we host every month for free. So it’s not just you feeling alone, like we talked about, we bring together CEOs and even CEOs to just kind of work through some of those challenges and and we’d love to have you there. It’s always a free experience, but it’s always enlightening, and it’s just such a refresher to be like, Oh my gosh, someone else has dealt with this, and we learn from each other. So it’s a great way to experience what’s possible when you start to put in some of these little operational pieces. And I would love to have you there.
Damon Pistulka 52:14
Awesome, awesome. Well, thanks, Jen. I want to just drop up one more comment from Steve Martin here. Those little moments actually occurred. That’s a big deal. They happened. Is there anything better? Encouraging to hear others celebrate the winning. Thanks for that comment. Steve. Appreciate it. And I just want to tell anyone that got into this late, go back to the beginning and listen to Jen. We got, we did have a little technical difficulties, so fast forward just a moment, but get into this thing, because she dropped some wonderful information talking about some of the things that she does to help people with teams and process accountability, all kinds of great things and and just the role that a fractional coo can help with. Thank you so much for being here today. Jen
Jen Hamilton 53:02
Damon, thank you for being here, and thank you for being that inspiration for those of us who want to know, how can we really make a true impact on their life, and it’s increasing the valuation of their business. Again, you give choices. You give people freedom to choose, and so thank you for what you do.
Damon Pistulka 53:20
Just happy to be able to do it. Thanks everyone. Jen, just hang around for a second. We’ll get offline here and finish up. But thanks everyone for being here today. We could see that you were out there. We could see that you’re listening. Got a lot of people on today. Great comments. We’ll be back again next week. Thanks so much. You.
