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Damon Pistulka, Greg Mischio
Damon Pistulka 00:03
All right, everyone. Welcome once again to the faces of business. I’m Damon Pistulka your host and with me today, I’ve got none other than Greg Michaud. Thanks for being here, Greg.
Greg Mischio 00:16
Oh, you bet. Damon, my pleasure.
Damon Pistulka 00:18
Ah, it’s gonna be awesome. Dude. I just, I’m excited for this. Because I think you’re really good at what you do. First of all, that’s cool as hell. And and second of all, you’re a Wisconsin guy, which I like coming from the Midwest like I did. Yeah.
Greg Mischio 00:36
I’m Wisconsin, Wisconsin.
Damon Pistulka 00:38
There you go. And if we were, if we were talking with some other people I was on the call with this morning Packers fan maybe? Are you? Yeah, yeah, of course, you got to be for the pack and in Wisconsin. So that’s good. Good stuff. All right. So Greg, this, let’s start by just having you tell me a little bit about your background. So the people here listening.
And if you’re listening on LinkedIn, I forget, if you’re listening here on LinkedIn, Facebook, wherever you’re listening, go ahead and drop a note in where you’re listening from. If you got any questions for Greg, while we’re going on, go ahead and do that. We’re watching the comments. We’ll get back to you on that. So Greg, let’s start out by learning a little bit about your background and how you got into a writing and then content writing. And then night now, like you’re doing for b2b content, writing and helping people do
Greg Mischio 01:26
that. Sure. So my background is, I’m a writer, first and foremost, I was a copywriter back in the, the old, not quite the Mad Men era, but was a ad copywriter for ad agencies. Yeah. And that’s how I started out. And then, you know, this thing called the internet came along, and businesses stop just doing print ads and magazines, and you know, direct mail and started getting on the internet and realizing, hey, this is a vehicle to sell.
And so then I made the transition, I realized, holy cow, there’s, this is where the copy needs to be, and suddenly became content, but from copy to content. And now, that’s, that was kind of the transition I made is to start to write for websites, and blogs, and you know, social media and things like that. So, and, you know, along the way, I realized, hey, there’s more to just writing copy. Now. Now, it has to be strategic in terms of search engine optimization, as to fitness social media strategy. And so that’s, and that’s all kind of encapsulated with content marketing.
Damon Pistulka 02:48
Yeah, yeah, it is, it is a lot different. So that’s for sure. I’m gonna, I’m looking at my notes, because it has to be a hell of a change coming from writing, print copy, to try to think about the specialized writing just for the different platforms and the different and stuff like that it has to be a lot or is it not that big of a change?
Greg Mischio 03:13
Oh, yeah. It’s, it’s, uh, yeah, it’s pretty huge. I mean, you know, I’m still thinking about ways to find the internet chord that’s connecting the cell and snipping it. So we print ads are fun. I mean, you know, it’s writing a headline and coming up with a concept for the ad, the one plus one equals three with the headline and the image. And, you know, and the other thing about those days is, I remember we were reading this copywriter wrote, like, You are lucky to have this job. Don’t ever forget it. And, you know, I’m, I’ve never heard anybody say that a debt. Because you know, you could spend if it came to you, you come up with a great idea, an hour. And you know, you’re done for the day.
Greg Mischio 04:07
know, cuz if you’re an idea, guy, that was the thing. So, yeah, those are great days. And since it was really hard to prove ROI, you just knew you had to do it. Yeah. Yeah, we’d spend a lot of money on it. And of course, you know, direct mails much more, you know, you can trace it. But yeah, that’s fun. I think there’s, that element is still out there. In terms of creativity, it’s just a little bit different. You know, it’s a little more strategic, you got to be a little bit more strategic, but there’s still creative problem solving.
But it’s just, it’s a little bit different. For sure. Yeah. I mean, there’s still I could still go work in an agency and do that, but I think I like what I like about the content marketing is it’s ongoing, you know, it’s ongoing work for us and You really do see the benefit for the customers. I do know as little more cynical in the days of working as a strictly a copywriter, especially just doing stuff where, you know, you’re not even sure if you’re making a difference, whereas now, you know, you’re making a difference. And you definitely know if you’re not making a difference.
Damon Pistulka 05:18
Yeah. Because they can vary. It’s all can be measured. Now.
Greg Mischio 05:22
It can be it can be measured. I mean, there was a great, I was reading the state of the marketing state of marketing approach from HubSpot today and talking about how companies are now one of the main ways companies are measuring the effectiveness of content marketing is total sales. Yeah, because you can get specific on channels.
You know, you can kind of get into the channels, but content marketing touches so many different areas, you know, it touches your SEO, it touches your sales team touches your social. It’s very, it’s it’s almost kind of like, I always call it like, branding by 1000. blog posts. It is very, it helps the brand overall. So there’s a lot of, you know, metrics we consider, but total sales is one of them for sure.
Damon Pistulka 06:17
Yeah. Yeah, that’s cool. We got Danny Shannon, he meant he’s weighing in here today. He’s calling listening from Australia. So that’s Oh, all right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Good stuff. It’s like, what time is there? It’s late at night from? Yeah, or no, no, no, no, no. It’s early morning, early morning. Sorry. They’re way ahead of us. That’s right.
That’s right morning, Danny.
Damon Pistulka 06:39
Yeah, yeah, it’s like 7am or something like that for him. So. But anyway, yeah, that’s it is because I am constantly baffled about the content. And I should say baffle. But it’s always intriguing to me, at the level of how customized it has to be when you talk about some of the stuff that you work on, because you’re helping, you’re helping some b2b brands sell some pretty people would say, more complicated things, like longer sales cycles and, and higher value kind of thing.
So you got a long ways to work people from they got, you know, might be a long time, they’re considering stuff. So they’re in this funnel for a long time. And how do you get them to the bottom of the funnel and actually make a purchase? You know, how many you got to go through a lot of stages and a lot of touches the content for them to get there sometimes. I gotta imagine, anyway,
Greg Mischio 07:37
yeah, there’s a you know, it’s funny, there’s everybody’s got a different customer journey. And Rand Fishkin drew up this great thing, we like the sales funnel to kind of Yeah, to kind of go like that, you know, and he’s like, the customer journey is really like, and he had this big squiggly line, you know,
Damon Pistulka 07:59
Greg Mischio 08:00
um, we, we talk about getting content in unit, you know, you and I have talked about this, people only do business with you, if they know you, like you and trust you. And so we try and get content to kind of match those three stages. So you know, just informational content that’s out there. At the no use stage, so they’re just starting to know you and just talk about their problems. Like use content where you get like tools that you’re helping them do their job, like, unlike calculator or checklist. And then the trust you is like the case studies, and really good landing pages and things like that.
So at every stage, you got to be there with some stuff to meet them. And then there’s, there’s the people in terms of the long sales cycle. Like, I don’t know, if the sales cycle is long in terms of going down the funnel. I think they’re just like, when somebody is ready to buy, they’re gonna go, you know, they’re in, right. Yeah. So I had a guy. We had a client who contacted me, he knew there was that he knew he needed to get into content marketing. And it was a referral, and he just parked for like, you know, nine months and didn’t matter. I’d send him emails, I’d be like, what’s going on?
And it didn’t matter what I did. I mean, I could like, I think it was on our newsletter, but he just wasn’t ready to go. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, boom, he’s ready, let’s go. So it’s kind of like, I don’t know if I had to cultivate them as much as I just had to be there and stay in front of them. And I think that’s a big part of it, too, is like, once you get that top of funnel content, where you’re on their radar and you’re talking about their problem, then they’re going to you know if they sign up for the newsletter, and they’re Just starting to learn about you and you share more of that content where you’re building up the rapport and the dross.
Yeah, then when they’re ready, then then it could be a quick thing. But, you know, like I said, all over the place, right? So I’ve also had a guy who a client of ours who is somebody was stalking them, you know, is essentially what is he’s like, I used to subscribe to their newsletter, and they were stalking us like, not stalking, but just now I’m watching you. And I’m analyzing what you’re saying. And I want to see if you’re for real in every month that came coming back, but you know, content and sharing ideas and shown our expertise. And then six months later, he’s like, Okay, let’s go. Yeah, so yeah, it’s a, you know, it’s kind of a dating game, I guess.
Damon Pistulka 10:48
Yeah. Cool. Yeah, it is. And I think I think about, you know, the know, like, and trust. And I see so many people that try to go right past that and say, Hey, you want to buy something from me? And I and it’s like, Where have they been? where they’ve been for the last, you know, five years? 10 years, whatever it is, because, man, I can’t imagine that without working on the know, like, and trust that you can sell much, if anything, unless it’s to somebody desperate that is hoping for a miracle, which is not going to be a good sale in the first place.
Greg Mischio 11:20
Yeah, I I don’t know. I I’m trying to figure out I mean, it’s a shortcut. I guess. So. Yeah. Like, in somebody, a wise man, or wise woman. Sonia. Simone, I think is her name from copyblogger says don’t take shortcuts they take too long. Yeah. All the effort you put into trying to hammer on people and get that sale. You know, it’s, it just doesn’t work. I mean, you know, I’ve Tella marketed I’ve called people. But it seems like the best the best loans that are the best transactions and things that we’ve had, have been off referrals and just getting to know people and just following that simple formula.
And that seems to work. But yeah, people still do it. And, and I think part of it too, Damon is it’s, if you can’t prove it to them, they’re not going to believe it. So, you know, they’ve the old way. It’s just how many calls Do I need to make to get the transaction? Right? Yeah. So maybe if like, what we’re really trying to do is show how much activity for example, you need to do on LinkedIn, just to make for, you know, how much how much times you have to comment? And then how many times do you need to make connections?
And then follow this formula of just not, you know, pushing stuff, sales, but just making contacts building your referral network? How many times does that start to happen before your pipeline will start to improve? And I think, I think if we start to quantify some of these things that we’re saying, then then it might be easier for some of these salespeople to say, Yeah, okay, I get it. Yeah, it does make sense.
Damon Pistulka 13:18
So that’s a good point, because I think most people are most companies are not really willing to make the investment in, in the long term sales game. And I think the salespeople are like, they’re, they’re stuck between the rock and the hard place. In some instances, obviously, many were, were there, they’re under the constraints of I gotta sell the day. But I know I need to build that long term pipeline.
And I think some of that is what drives drives the, the more pushy kind of things that go out. But in the overall benefit of the company would be much, much greater long term. I think, anyway, I’m asking you a kind of paraphrasing or asking you a question wrong way. But do you agree that if we could, if we took a little bit longer term approach that and really worked on the know, like, and trust that the sales will come if you’re, if you’re saying the right things and speaking about the right things?
Greg Mischio 14:20
Well, I you know, ask Apple, you know, I mean, apples, great point. Apple’s built this incredible, great point, you know, yeah, got all the big brands, and, you know, did Apple do that through telemarketing? No, he did not. Now, they had incredible products. Yes, you know, that, but there’s also the brand and, and just, you know, proving themselves, solving problems and things like that. Well, why can’t that work on a personal level as well? I mean, sales people like Why can’t you build your personal brand There’s some really great folks out there.
And I mean, I, David, I mean, I think you’re a great example of what you’re doing right now is you’re trying to help people out there, you know, through this show. That’s what you’re doing with Kurt. And I, I know you’re starting to see the results of all these efforts, just trying to get help people along. And, you know, you get your name out there in the process.
But you know, people see exit your way, they start to get interested, and they understand that you are an expert and a thought leader. That’s what it’s all about. And now you’re building people know you now. And now you’re starting to build trust, because, you know, look, you get, and, again, people like me and your show, this guy’s got to be trustworthy.
Damon Pistulka 15:49
I’m telling you, I’m telling you, I was the I just I’m flabbergasted every day.
Greg Mischio 15:58
I mean, but it’s, it’s true. It’s like, and I’m sure things are going a lot better. Since you started doing that, then yeah, maybe in the past, and you probably even more fun doing it too.
Damon Pistulka 16:09
Well. And that’s that’s the one thing I mean, I enjoy what we do. But But I do have to say you’re right. But it’s not an easy process. I mean, you you That thing is, you’ll spend on if you want to try it. And I tell people this all the time, you might spend a year, it may be a year, it may be two years, but once the ball starts rolling, it really starts to roll. And once you’ve put that effort in, it starts to pay it back. And you said something there that I think that if there are sales people now listening, they should think about this, building their personal brand, because I never thought you said that building your personal brand. I always think about the company.
But people if I’m a good salesperson, and I take the time no matter what I’m selling, to build a good personal brand. I can be a good salesperson, day one mood if I’m if I’m doing a really good job of that moving industry to in or geographically industry, whatever, as long as I’m doing a good enough job of being that building that personal brand.
Greg Mischio 17:18
Exactly. And you know, how do you do that? How do ya build that personal brand? Well, I think there’s two ways to do it. The first is be selfless. Right? So help that help other people out? Yeah, either go giver. Yeah. So always pay it forward, like you’re doing right here. Because now, if anybody is talking about selling their business or needs consulting, Damon’s my guy.
Okay. So you know, that that’s part of it is the go giver is a great book. And a great example of that of how a salesperson is just this. It’s his story about how a salesperson is just hammering and hammering and calling people he can’t get any deals, meets this mentor says, No, you just got to help people out. Yeah, it starts to help people out and in return, the universe repays him, you know, and it’s quite a new age, but it’s very, you know, it’s very similar.
Damon Pistulka 18:22
Well, yeah, you know, I can remember listening to Zig Ziglar, or my grandfather driving in the car, because my grandfather was crazy about Zig Ziglar. And Zig Ziglar always say, if you help enough people, you have everything you want. A hell he was saying the right way. Back then, and, you know, so
Greg Mischio 18:41
you’re right, it is a part of of doing that. And I think you hit it when you said, you got to build a personal brand. And being that go giver, no matter what you’re doing for whoever you’re doing it for is going to carry forward and help you throughout your career. That I mean, that’s one part of it. And then the other part is, you know, you have to give that the way to other other way to help is to give of your expertise. So you need and that’s what we try and do with the content is share what you know, like we’re putting out a big post tomorrow about how to or on Monday, we’re going to release it on how a strategy for building your LinkedIn company page.
And, you know, it’s a, it took a lot of work to put it together. We’ve got we’ve got a lot of experts involved. Ira Bowman is quoted in a you know, Ira, of course, and, you know, we worked really hard on it, and, and we’re giving it away, you know, yeah, it’s like, Hey, listen, you share your expertise like that. It’s just like doing somebody a favor. And, and so that I guess that’d be the two things that share your expertise and, and help people out.
Damon Pistulka 19:54
Yeah. Well, and and sharing the expertise. I mean, really, there’s I’ve heard people say, Well, you don’t want to give someone everything. And I’m like, you know what, you can’t give somebody enough. Because at the end of the day, there’s all kinds of people, there’s do it yourselfers that are gonna do it themselves no matter what. So give them the information just so they cannot, you know, kill themselves trying to do something. And then there’s the people that are never going to do it, no matter what, no matter what they hear, they might listen to it.
And then there’s the people that are going to realize that maybe I should let an expert help me because I can get it done faster. Yeah, I’m gonna pay somebody some money, but I’m gonna make more money or be be happier in the long run. And those are the people that you’re talking to your talk to all those groups, but, you know, that’s, that’s the group that you really want to make sure that’s in the room.
Greg Mischio 20:42
Well, and the other thing, too, is, you know, unless you have like, a patented drug or something, what are these secrets that we can’t get? You know, and and the other thing is, it’s like, what? Okay, so that’s all you’re gonna do. You’ve got this secret, and you don’t want anybody to know it, like the world’s never gonna change and yeah, changing and adapt. Yeah. Give it away. Yeah. And like you said, the people need you, and not the DIY people, you know, and the copycats who do steal you, you know, they’re just gonna sit around and wait for you to do the next thing. While you’re getting better. Yeah, exactly. new stuff. So,
Damon Pistulka 21:24
exactly. You know, you’re exactly right. It’s like, it’s, it’s when you can do things in an industry that nobody else can do. And you’ve seen manufacturers do this, I’m sure they come up with a new way of doing something for them, that can can really make a big difference in their industry and, and by the time somebody else catches up with that, they’re already if they’re good, they’re three, four or five steps ahead of them, because they made that leap.
And if the same way in your content strategy or anything, if you’re, if you’re out there, and you’re trying and improving and learning, you’re going to be ahead of people, just because if you’re got that improvement process and really honing your, your message in what you’re trying how you’re trying to help people and helping more people, like you said, with talking about the problems, tools to help them and and showing how it’s helped people. It’s a formula that when
Greg Mischio 22:18
Well, the other thing too, is when you really explain what you do, and the magic you make and show them how hard it is, or just how much expertise requires on their part. That’s that’s when people like get you know, halfway through the article, they’re gonna be like, why don’t you do it? That’s a real pain in the ass.
Damon Pistulka 22:44
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it’s like village verger. New. Good out of the story. Get that?
Greg Mischio 22:53
Yeah, you lost me it, you gotta buy tools. And then I’m like, Yeah,
Damon Pistulka 22:57
yeah, it’s on you. That’s good. Oh, well, this is good. So So when, when you’re trying to work with b2b companies, do you? Do you run into that they’re so technical about what they’re doing? That they really can’t explain it to people? And you you’re kind of like a conduit that goes, Okay. I don’t understand. So I have to take what they’re saying and convert it into something that I can understand. And then other people be understood to be able to understand it.
Greg Mischio 23:33
Yeah, yeah. I think, you know, it really depends, like, you know, if you get into some of the really technical writing, we have a client in the converting industry. And they, they don’t write for the like, we don’t write for the technical journals. Yeah, yeah. Burning people put out. And, you know, my father was an academic and used to write a lot and publish. And I remember reading his stuff and being like, I can’t read this. Yeah. What this is horrible. Who wants to read this? But But there I think the role that the content marketing agency plays in it is more of a storyteller. And yeah, we unable to package it correctly.
Yeah, in an appealing way. So it, it’s, it’s interesting, it’s like, people like to talk about themselves. And companies like to talk about their products. We were, we were just working on. It was a sales letter that this that this CEO had written. And he was it was sufficient for big account. And he had a long letter talking about everything they did that was wasn’t good. And to his credit, he gave it to us, and he’s like, help me out with this. And First we rewrote it, just the whole thing, same length, and just, you know, cleaned it up. And he’s like, now that’s still not it. So then I was like, Okay, this is how I really want to write it. I took out everything that where he talked about himself.
And I just included anything that was complimentary to the client. And then the only example I include I gave an example of how the product could actually help the client. And that was it. And it went from like, I don’t know, like, you know, 300 words down to 100. And he looked at he is like, that’s it perfect. Yeah, so it’s like, kind of that self awareness where, you know, credit, again, credit to him where he’s like, I am too when I’m too deep in it. And I need somebody to say, here’s the value to the customer. And somebody on the customer side, really?
Damon Pistulka 25:57
Yeah. Yeah. So you’re kind of that that’s a good way of saying it is you’re kind of looking at it more from a customer’s perspective and helping them convert it into something that makes sense.
Greg Mischio 26:08
Yeah, it’s kind of like the realtor who’s like, you know, they represent what is it? They represent the buyer? Yeah, they, you know, we represent the customer. Yeah, yeah, the way to look at it.
Damon Pistulka 26:21
Yeah. So what do you think that the biggest challenges are in content creation, now content, the kind of role roles that you play?
Greg Mischio 26:33
You know, there’s, there’s a lot I mean, there’s, I think it kind of stems from starting at the core, like, what is understanding what the customer really wants, and doing the research to find out. And then, you know, what, what are the top elements like we, we do, when we do our customer onboarding, we talk to the customers, and we interview them. And then we have a market researcher go through and analyze the language, and who’s saying the same things the most in that way. It’s like the client knows what they want, but they don’t know what the priority is.
And if you can find out what the priority is, and what the real hot button is, that can make all the difference in the world. So you know, starting there, then it’s a matter of execution, then it’s a matter of actually generating the content, and then making it appropriate for whatever venue, you know, we do a lot of written content. There’s a lot of great, there’s a lot of ways to reach with podcasts. There’s a lot of video, but I think like everything’s kind of got its place. And and it’s, you know, trying to, I guess, trying to get in all those different realms and figure out a way to do that with your content. Yeah. I mean, that’s kind of the challenge.
Damon Pistulka 28:03
Yeah, yeah. I think you’re right. It’s, it is and, and you said something that I can’t believe how many people mess up and including myself in our company is the cut the initial customer research is not, is not deep enough? I mean, we think we know who we sell to, but we really don’t.
Greg Mischio 28:23
Yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s hard. And you’re always it’s hard, I think to because there’s, there’s only there’s only one company I know of their market research firm. That does it really well. And as, as Mick created this methodology that I, I read a post about it on our blog called a proof positioning. Greg Gooding is doing some amazing work out there. They actually, they, they’ve managed to connect, like a quantifiable way. So they’ll, they’ll get a quantity of customers. They get the salespeople to tell you what, what people talk about when they buy, and then they, they go to the customer. And they’ll get a, you know, quantity, so they have some statistical validity to it.
Yeah. And make its, you know, get the statistical confidence, whatever the term is, and I’m not a great market researcher. Yeah, once they get the number, then they they have software will, they’ll see how quickly respond people respond to the attribute. So if it’s low cost, and you say, yeah, so it’s kind of like in your spine right away. say, Oh, that’s an emotional motional response. It’s, it’s emotional data is what they call anything that’s if you can find the emotional connection that your customers want. Elson Ford talks about that a lot. Yeah. If you can write about that, and tap into that emotion, that that’s when you’ll win.
And so that’s what this company does. It’s like when I say, you know, Damon, how important is it that your, your, your son is safe. And you know, you’ll be like, on a scale of one to 1010 being the most important to be like 10. You know, like, right like that. Damon, how important is he that he goes to an Ivy League school? Okay, and then you’re like, five, and whatever, your while to respond. But that immediate response and visceral response, I mean, that’s, and so then this company does that. And then he tells the salespeople, this is what you say, yeah, and this is how you sell. So I, I’m fascinated by that, we’re trying to integrate that.
Without for our clients who might not have be able to hire, proof positioning, and do it in a way. And then use, like, we talked about creating this digital twin of, yeah, understanding what the sales people want to say. And we create this kind of a digit use content as a digital twin. So that this is what the sales people say they want to say, and create this digital twin that sits out there like it is Yeah, actually being used for prototyping, it’s a digital representation, we say, make the content be that, and then you can see you, you understand what the customer is reacting to.
And you can test it through advertising, and you can test it through the one on one interviews, and, and then it shouldn’t work the same way. As a manufacturing, you should be able to see from that messaging, what’s working and what’s not. And then it flows back to the salesperson and say, Look, you know what? Yeah, I know, you’ve been trying this. And this is what you say works. This is what they actually care about. So yeah, try your try, you know, changing up your pitch. Yeah,
Damon Pistulka 31:58
yeah, that digital twin concept that that you guys use is really interesting, because you literally can by talking about the hot buttons, the problems, the the different things that are important to your customers, you can really help draw people in into the sales process. And like you said, It proves to the sales people then to what they should be discussing.
Greg Mischio 32:20
Yeah, we we came up with it, as you know, just because 70% of the prospecting is done. Online. Yeah, away from the salesperson. So we, you know, the initial thing was, create a digital twin of your sales person. So when people search, there’s, there’s your content to represent them. And then, you know, the more we learned about digital twin, the more we’re like, you know, let’s make it true to what a digital twin is, and inform the salesperson back. So, you know, we we were still we’re working and always building out it. But that that concept really seems like it’s got a lot of legs and can be built on more and more.
Damon Pistulka 33:02
Well, I agree 100%. Because, listen, the buyers are going farther and farther away from wanting to meet with somebody to figure out who they should go with on a sale, especially a b2b sale. Even if it’s an innocent, it can be a big b2b sale, you know, because if you’re a contract manufacturer, and I’m at a company that’s looking to buy all my metalwork, from stamped millwork from this company, it could be $5 million deal easy, it could be $30 million deal, who knows, but they’re there millions of dollars, there’s not talking $100,000 and those people the same as someone that’s gonna buy something off of Amazon, go online and look for that, try to find those things.
And that’s only happening more as we live, we, you know, people my age that didn’t live with Google other their whole life, dropped out of the workforce, right. And, and everybody that’s been used to Google, you’re used to searching and finding what you want, and getting down that road a lot farther, as you said, 70% down that road before, you’re really ready to talk to somebody.
And at that point, you’re going to talk to the people that have done the best job of laying out why you can why they can solve the specific problem you’re going to be they have. So you have to know them well enough to identify that problem. And then why and then help them see why you’re the best fit for solving that problem.
Greg Mischio 34:29
Oh, yeah. I mean, like, if they get to your website, and and you’re not talking about their pain point. You know, I mean, how many times we look at a website, and we’re just like, you know that your website can kill the deal right there.
Damon Pistulka 34:46
Greg Mischio 34:47
I mean, just the the value prop that’s right there. That’s staring people in the face. I mean, the value prop is they’re really hard to write. I Oh, yeah. Well, Whenever we whenever we get like a, we’re just getting a new writer in and working with her about the value prop, and it’s like this is you want to get as concise as possible and understand what that emotional thing is. And it’s totally all about the customer. And it’s just so many people just don’t understand. Yeah, otherwise they think it is. They’re just there to talk about themselves.
Damon Pistulka 35:31
I’ve read this book, I can’t see I’ve read this book, like, because I think this the Donald Miller storebrand. That don’t, I think it’s good because it’s gives a goofball like me, least something to work for, and I, you know, five, getting something that a third grader can understand in five seconds, that’s what I remember out of it. And and Matt distilling everything down that you know, that you want to say, which is total BS, because what you want to say is not what the customer wants to hear, and then figure in it and get it down into that concise and that quick to be able to say, how are you gonna make my life better?
And how is it you know, how am I going to be after this is done? And I forget, all it says, but then how? How do I? What are my next steps to do business with you in five seconds? And, you know, it’s, it’s like, you go, Wow, that’s tough. Yeah, I can’t even I can’t even, you know, accurately describe the concept of what you’re trying to do there, let alone, you know, do it for a business. And I can’t tell you how many times I’ve looked at our sites, client sites, everybody else’s. And just trying to help with that. It’s difficult. I think that, like you said, the job you’ve got for doing that is tremendously challenging.
Greg Mischio 36:46
I think it is. But I think your customers make it easier for you. So if you can figure out what your customers want, and it’s not a guessing game, then it’s just, you know, getting some good writers in there to really hone in on the message. Yeah. You know, it like we when we were writing our value prop and our website. Yeah, I think we’ve got it now we manufacture more than just content we manufacture, we give you the right approach.
And I like that, when we did our market research with the the marketing department leaves, we found that was the one thing I think, like, emotionally they’re worried about is like, you know, they they knew they could, it’s like a lot of marketers have paralysis, because they don’t know if they’re doing it the right way. And so they rather than just try some things and experiment, they just won’t do anything.
And they’re petrified because they really don’t know the approach. That’s right. You know, is this what am I doing with the content? Is it right for SEO? Is it right for, you know, social media? You know, and, and so they’ll just sit there. And it’s like the approach, it can be more critical, you know, the content is the easy part. To me. It’s like making sure you got the right approach. That’s, that’s where the money comes in.
Damon Pistulka 38:10
Yeah, yeah. But like you said, the customers help you.
Greg Mischio 38:14
customers, they have all the answers. Yeah. Talk to him.
Damon Pistulka 38:18
Yeah, that’s for sure. Well, and it’s amazing. Still, I’m working with manufacturers as as you do as we do. I that’s something that I think it comes back around again, I think manufacturers are now beginning to realize more and more and more and more every day that they have to understand that customer better and better and better. And Nish into their specific where they’re the best.
And then that content, their website, the way they talk, everything shouldn’t go right for that. You know, what’s interesting, too, and just to build on that all, Damon is like, I was talking, one of our manufacturing clients told me that their machines are the result of incredible amounts of customer feedback. And what it what he meant by that was,
Greg Mischio 39:09
every time there was a problem with the machine, the customer would tell them, and they would change it. Yeah. You know, so they were they I think a lot of manufacturers are talking to their customers. It’s like part of their process is there has to be right. Yeah. Cuz you’re, no, that part doesn’t work. Yes, I like you need to fix it. So like they’re in that mode on the floor. Yes, they’re not in that mode. In the 100% 100%.
Damon Pistulka 39:39
You hit right there because they know exactly what there’s their pieces they may go to or how their product is used in another product or how it solves a problem. You know, Caterpillar knows how their bulldozers work out in the field, but they don’t understand the problem of the person that buys that bulldozer well enough to accurately tell them how Show them how I could help them.
Greg Mischio 40:01
Yeah, there’s one thing we do with our content to like in that top of funnel, where we’re trying to get people to know us is you’re solving this part of their problem, this little narrow niche, your product, but what’s their bigger problem? You know, what are they really trying to do? And that’s where you like, start to integrate in other people, other experts. So I mean, go back to that LinkedIn post we created. You know, we’re good at LinkedIn. But there’s people out there, who, you know, that’s they live and breathe it. And I’m like, Hey, man, you’re good. I’m gonna bring you in to my customers bigger problem.
And together, I’m going to, I’m going to give this to my customers and say, Look, who else I’m bringing in these experts to collaborate with me on this content? To help you solve your problem. Yeah, and, and hear it, you know, and I think that’s, that’s what we really try and do is collaborate on the top of funnel. Bring in everybody. You can, yeah. Because you know, whether your suppliers, your partners, and champion them, and I mean, yeah, you know, they’ll help you though. Yeah. Then Then they’ll put the word out on LinkedIn, they’ll share your message and your content, because they’re featured in it. Yeah. And your customers will love and you’ll cast a wider net.
Damon Pistulka 41:26
Yeah. Well, yeah. That’s, that’s awesome. How are you? And that because really, what you’re doing is you’re solving the customer’s problem. It doesn’t matter. What you know, it’s around what you do. But it’s, it’s ancillary to what you do. But it’s still a problem that they need to solve. So you’re getting the help they really need. And that’s, that’s the, that’s the thing that I think is is like you said, it’s complimentary to your business, maybe not today.
But that builds over time and build that know, like, and trust and goodwill that you’re trying to build as, as being a valuable part, or a valuable part of the solution process. Maybe your might not be using the right words, but it’s, it’s something like that. And that goes back again, to be in that go giver, and and really helping people out with their problems. And with your expertise.
Greg Mischio 42:17
Well, and your you’ve been in the m&a business, right. So what’s your great m&a? It’s Win Win, right? Yeah. When when is the best m&a? So what’s a win? Think Win Win marketing? Yes, win is not just you selling the win is also, you know, like working with these collaborators get their message out, it’s a win win for both of you. They you get access to their social network, you get an inbound link, and then you know, everybody’s helping the customer. And yeah,
Damon Pistulka 42:50
you know, it’s funny that you said that we mentioned m&a, because one of the things that Andrew and I work a lot on is really understanding the buyer profile for a given company that that, you know, because we’re helping them, get them to the size and want set up like they need to be in and doing a lot of hands on work there. But when we get to the end, and we go, okay, even when we start, we have to understand where we’re going to get to the end, because the way a company has to look to be attractive to their target buyer audience is very different based on Am I going to sell it to an individual person, am I going to sell it that’s got enough money to do that kind of thing?
Am I going to sell it to a this this kind of investment group Am I gonna sell to a strategic buyer, you really need to understand because the management team needs to look different, the sales and marketing plan to our plans need to look different, and a lot of other stuff has to change in those companies just to be attractive to their target market. So we start that years ahead of time, as you’re making changes in a business to make sure that if I’m going to sell this as a platform company for a private equity group, right, if it’s big enough, you can do that. Well, that company has to have a CEO, and a management team.
And you probably want a board of directors set up so they can plan and execute a five year growth strategy. And without anybody’s outside help, right? The owners, the owners can sit back on the board and watch that happen. They have to be like that, because that’s what the private equity group wants. Now, the why on that aren’t quite that good. But if they’re that good, they’ll pay more money for them. And that’s what we really enjoy doing. Because we’re using that customer profile, not the customer profile.
But we we go out and talk to the customers even we’ll get their feedback, we’ll say hey, what do you think of this company? If it was this big? What How would you want it to look? And then because they’re always looking for deals, right? So we use that customer feedback, and we go back and then we start to build like that. And then we go back out to them when it’s ready.
Damon Pistulka 44:58
it’s not it. I mean, but you use it. As you said that I just kind of went through it because it is a win win, right? Because the owner gets it, oh, lots more money, just lots more money when they do it. But the buyer gets a company that set up like they want, and it’s ready to go on to help them be successful as well. And it is a win win.
Greg Mischio 45:20
Yeah, I, you know, it’s I think it’s so valuable for a business owner to talk to somebody like you, I have a business coach who’s been through some transactions like that. And he it’s amazing to me how he thinks like, you do like your mindset, like, Okay, what is your company need to look like to be attractive to a buyer.
And, and it’s not like you don’t necessarily you might not necessarily have to go and have a huge, you know, 100 million dollar business or whatever to get bought, you know, you might need an incredible idea that you can sell to them and say, This is what this is, here’s the validated model. And what’s, you know, can you What would it look like if we know if we brought more resources, do it?
Damon Pistulka 46:13
Yeah. Yeah, I
Greg Mischio 46:14
think I think you’re valid. And what you’re saying is so valuable. Totally valuable for a business owner. I’ll
Damon Pistulka 46:20
tell you it tried. It kind of clicked with me when you’re saying that about just listening to the customer. And you mentioned m&a a little bit, because it is, it is fun. It is like you said when you’re generating content, we really get that content and really understand that customer and you right that that content that you can tell you can tell it resonates with them. That’s that’s when you know you’ve got the right the right recipe, or you found that what you need to the message you want to give.
Greg Mischio 46:45
Yep, yep. Yeah, really?
Damon Pistulka 46:47
Well, Greg, it’s been it’s been awesome talking to you, man. So tell me this. How do people get ahold of you? If they want to talk to you about b2b content?
Greg Mischio 47:00
LinkedIn, I’m on LinkedIn. I don’t know if there’s a tear link or something that yet you put together. Okay, we’ll drop it in there. All right. Yeah.
Damon Pistulka 47:08
What’s your outfit in there, it’ll be in the comments on here. You’re going to be featured on our blog post page and it comes up, you’ll be featured in the podcast links back to LinkedIn, all that good stuff. So we’ll have that there. So get ahold of Greg Michaud on LinkedIn. And when
Greg Mischio 47:25
bound is our company, so you can go to when bound wi n like when victory bound? b o u n d I screwed up when we named the company it did not. Do you ever hear the What is it? The radio tests if you’re going to name a company? No, come up with a name that if you heard it on the radio, you’d know what it is. Like you could say it and spell it because every time I’m like, I my company’s name is wind bound, and everyone’s like, wind about wi n d and I’m like, Oh, yeah, right. So
Damon Pistulka 48:00
anyway, win. Win round. All right. Well, that’s great. So it’s win bound, calm, Greg. Michelle, thanks so much for being here. Man. I enjoy it. I love your content, that the stuff that you do, you’re so talented, and the way you you. I mean, just the stuff you do is cool, man. Thank you. And I really enjoy it. So thanks so much for being here. Everybody, listen on LinkedIn. Thank you for joining us once again. We will be back here again next week with some more great guests.
And I’ve I always spaced this out. How can I do this every single time that I space out who’s coming next week? I know. I’ve got Chuck coxhead on Friday, and I think Chuck Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he’s got an interesting story because it’s just it’s kind of like Kurt Anderson with the the whole configurator and shaking up a company to take over ecommerce. It’s gonna be cool as heck.
Greg Mischio 48:54
I did one last comment. Have you ever seen anybody? Like drink a straw and look cool? You can’t do it? No.
Damon Pistulka 49:02
It doesn’t happen. It doesn’t have for me either. I
get it a badass.
Damon Pistulka 49:06
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I gave up like ever ago. Like never. No. No, no, I beat me in badass. Oh, yeah. That was a distant memory of a childhood dream. Anyway, thanks, everyone for joining us on the faces of business. Greg. Michelle, thanks for being here. When wi n bound calm. He’s going to talk to Greg hit him on LinkedIn. And we will be back again next Tuesday at 3pm. Have a great day, everyone.