• 25:06
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Project management, compliance, efficiency, regulated manufacturing, electrical engineer, NASA, project documentation, agile methodology, engineering change orders, IPC standards, printed circuit boards, supplier validation, quality management system, audits, long-term projects.
SPEAKERS
Damon Pistulka, Angela Thurman
Damon Pistulka 00:08
All right, welcome once again to the faces of business. I am your host, Damon Pistulka, and I am so excited for our guest today, because we have a repeat offender. Angela Thurman, is back again. Angela, thanks for being here today.
Angela Thurman 00:24
Oh, it’s my pleasure. Damon, thank you for having me again. Yes.
Damon Pistulka 00:28
And today with Angela, we’re going to be talking about project management and regulated manufacturing, specifically around compliance and efficiency. So Angela, we always like to start out with learning a bit about the person, and why don’t you tell us a little bit about your background, how that relates to project management and what you’re up to today.
Angela Thurman 00:52
Okay, I’d love to so. I am an electrical engineer. I went to college in my hometown, this tiny, little town in Northwest Arkansas, and immediately after graduation, I went to work for NASA. And it’s not like one of the NASA’s that everybody knows about. I went to work for what was then known as NASA Lewis Research Center in Cleveland, Ohio. So being a good southern girl from Arkansas, I of course, went to work for the only NASA facility north of the mesa Dixon. That facility is now known as NASA Glenn, and it’s actually one of the oldest NASA facilities. It was actually a NACA, the National Advisory Council on aviation, before NASA even existed. So a very long and storied history. And the reason that I went to NASA Lewis is because they had the program for the power management for the space station. So this is before the space station even existed. It was in planning and development at that time, okay and and with with my background, they selected me so because NASA Lewis, or NASA Glenn is located in Cleveland, Berea. In Berea, there’s Baldwin Wallace College, and that’s where Dr Harold kerzner was teaching at the time. And Dr kerzner is recognized around the world as one of the leading thought leaders on project management. In fact, he was one of the very first people to help bring about the development of the Project Management Institute, and he’s written a ton of books on project management, and so NASA would bring Doctor into the lab to teach project management theory to all of the engineers, including me. So very early in my career, I had that that benefit of actually learning project management from Dr kerzner. And of course, at the time, I didn’t, I didn’t realize how, you know, how that would affect my career going forward, but it really, really was a blessing. Yeah, yeah. And so that’s how I got into project management, yes,
Damon Pistulka 04:05
well, and you’ve, you’ve had throughout your career. I mean, you’ve had some pretty large projects that you’ve managed, and it does take a tremendous amount of organization to do that. Just drop a couple highlights and some of the things that you you did, and then where you’re at today. What’s your what’s your
Angela Thurman 04:23
help? So in the mid 90s, I worked for a telecommunications company called Williams telecommunications, and I did all different phases of planning, as well as the project engineering for a company that, for example, we we built a brand new fiber optic route from Houston to Washington, DC, but we had. And we had network all across the United States and and I even helped with the coordination of trade agreements between Williams and, say, British Telecom, so that that involved a lot of communications equipment, which we, at that time, we purchased from Northern telecom or Nortel. And so I helped to manage the overall procurement of $2.5 billion of Nortel equipment. That’s a bit. That was a bit. In fact, we all got these fancy pens. Nortel gave us these Waterman pens. That contract was signed Very good. That was over a very long period. It wasn’t like tomorrow we’re going to take delivery. Yeah, but tracking things like you might not think about it, but here’s this. This, I’m just going to say piece of equipment, you know, and but if you don’t have the cables to connect it, this $100,000 piece of equipment is useless to the network, so I would have to do follow up with my Nortel contact to say this is not complete. The delivery is not complete, and therefore I’m imposing penalties, and I get a rebate until it is delivered complete. So until I get those cables, the clock is ticking and I want my rebate, well, not on the price of the cables, on the whole thing,
Damon Pistulka 06:54
yeah, yeah. And that’s important in these large projects, because one thing affects another, affects another, and affects another. Yes, yes. When you’re talking about multi year projects like that, it’s a huge thing. And then when you look at compliance and and you know, you’re talking about the delivery of cables, that’s a good example of efficiency, because if items don’t come there as planned. It affects everything else, and it throws your efficiencies off, right?
Angela Thurman 07:24
If you don’t, if, if I’ve got a crew that is installing, you know, this site, because you literally had to build the facility and get power and, you know, everything set up. And so if we were delayed because we were missing a set of cables for that trans transmission equipment, then you know the next site would be delayed. And it just was. It was a compounding effect,
Damon Pistulka 08:01
that’s for sure. So as you’re working through your career, what are and and getting to today, what are some of the things that you’re you’re seeing common across industries, because you’ve got experience in several different industries, what are some of the things that you see when you look at these long term projects that they have in common,
Angela Thurman 08:25
development always takes longer than you expect. There are going to be delays. Because for one thing, the requirements at the beginning can be very loose. I mean, we think we know what we want, but as we get more information, the requirements change, and that’s one of the reasons why agile project management has become more and more popular in recent years. Um and so as those requirements solidify, you’ll see a lot of engineering change orders submitted. Costs will escalate, because you you may have begun to procure materials only to find out that there’s a change order, and now you need something else, and the material that you did procure is scrapped, yeah, so there’s, there’s that kind of thing also, certainly, and This goes to part of our topic today, the various governing bodies, whatever type of certifying bodies or like, whether it’s the FCC if you’re in communications, or it’s the FAA if you’re in aviation, or EASA if you’re in. And European Aviation, or any other group that might have have a say so in how this product is going to be marketed and whether it’s safe and so forth, they could, they can make up completely new rules halfway through the project, or even at the very end or after it’s brought into the market, the marketplace. So you, you, you, you never know when there might be something, a new rule that comes up that you’ll have to address, yes, and constantly be watching that monitor.
Damon Pistulka 10:47
Yeah, because when you’re in the long term development, that’s a huge thing. You never think about that. But you could be halfway through developing something, then they say, Well, this happened, and now we need to change our our specifications Exactly.
Angela Thurman 11:00
And it could, it could be all kinds of things like, does this product produce noise? You know, because most people don’t think about that. But for a pilot that’s on a long haul flight, you know, every little thing that impacts their their comfort increases their workload. So if it’s, you know, physical discomfort, if it’s noise or lights or anything like that, it can disrupt their attention span, and we certainly don’t want that to happen in an airplane. Yeah,
Damon Pistulka 11:47
that’s for sure. That’s for sure. You want to be able to fly without interruption. Yeah, so when you’re talking about the so let’s talk a little bit about what you’re helping helping today in your current role. Oh, recently,
Angela Thurman 12:00
so as of April the first, I recently took a new corporate role with a company called macro fab and located here in Houston, a remarkable company. It’s a small smaller than the companies I’ve been working for anyway, and and they produce, they’re really a technology company, but the the thing that they manufacture is printed circuit boards and printed circuit board assemblies, okay? And they’ve got, they’ve got really a revolutionary um method, because they, I mean, if you need, if you need a printed circuit board next week, you can go onto the macrofab platform, and that’s this, really, it’s a software tool and put in your information, your requirements, load up your specs, how many? Add all of your design information, put in your credit card number, and it’ll be delivered. Oh, wow. It really is amazing to me and and so I’m working as a program manager for macrofab, specifically for our factory network. Mm, hmm, throughout, well, throughout the globe, but, but focus primarily in the in North America. Yeah, yeah. So all of our partners throughout not only the US, but Canada and Mexico, we actually have a factory in in Mexico, okay, although we’re headquartered here in Houston,
Damon Pistulka 13:54
yeah, yeah. So when, when you look at some of the similar, some of the similarities and some of the differences in what you do, what are some of the key project management things that you need to be watching in these regulated industries where, where you know we talk about could be things changing or other other problems. What are some of the things that people might overlook that that can really turn into problems? Well,
Angela Thurman 14:23
in in the printed circuit board world, we are governed by a set of standards, if you were will, called the IPC standards. And there are, there are three levels of standards based on what this circuit board is going to go into. So imagine, you know, if this is a little circuit board that’s going to go into a toy, you know, it’s not, it’s not as demanding, right? And, and so that’s what i. PC class one. It’s really not important that everything be absolutely perfect. Now, if this is a printed circuit board that’s going to go into some sort of customer device, say, like your your phone or a TV. You know, we really want it to be very good, but those things have a lifespan of maybe two or three years. So that’s class two. Now, if this is going into a medical device, or it’s, it’s aerospace related, that that has to be highly reliable, and that’s going to be class three. So you’re going to want the very, very highest quality. You’re going to want this to be inspected. Super, super, super good. You’re going to want only the best materials, the most rugged of all, the electronics, because it’s critical, yeah, that operate the way it needs to operate. Yeah? I mean, I don’t want someone’s pacemaker failing. Yes, yes. So that’s class three. So in my previous life in aerospace, again, Aerospace is class three, I had the opportunity to help my supplier in their selection of a circuit board manufacturer. And so they told me, you know, oh, we’ve selected this circuit board manufacturer. We’re going to change our supplier. We’re going to go to this company. Like, great. So we’re all going to visit this little circuit board house in Oregon, and I’d never been there, and nobody had been there before, and and my supplier had already placed a purchase order, and this company was ready to build the circuit boards, but it was incumbent upon me to validate that they they were up to the mark. And we my team and I got there, we went to the conference room. I started reading out the requirements from the purchase order, my purchase order, to my supplier, and they said, Oh no, we’re not class three. We’re only class two. I said,
Damon Pistulka 17:43
Hold on, yeah, yeah, it’s a non starter, then it’s
Angela Thurman 17:48
a non starter. So it’s a lovely facility you have here, but you can’t do the job. Yeah? So because of the failure to validate that this shop could even meet the requirement. We just wasted two days, yeah, traveling back and forth to a place that couldn’t do the job. Yeah,
Damon Pistulka 18:13
that’s a great example of, you know, really taking your time to validate the suppliers are able to do what you do, and then understanding your your critical compliance needs and what you’re doing. So as you’re going on, what are some of the things now that are that you’re seeing that are being developed to help this, to help get better in compliance, better in efficiency and project management. What’s happening today? Well, I
Angela Thurman 18:39
think that one of the most efficient and simple tools that we can employ is just a checklist. Okay, so I mean, that’s not, that’s not very hard, that’s one second. I uh, pardon me, I’ve been battling a cold for about three days. Okay,
Damon Pistulka 19:05
all right,
Angela Thurman 19:07
you know that’s, I think that that that’s just
Damon Pistulka 19:11
one good, good, solid checklist, makes you checklist,
Angela Thurman 19:15
yeah, yeah. And then, um, making sure that we, all, everyone involved, understands what, what is the measurement? What is this? What is, I hate to say, standard, but you know, what is the the measuring rod, yeah, that you’re going to use, because if they think that, if your your supplier thinks that, oh, they’re going to use this rod to measure me, and you come in to say, oh, no, I’m using this, this rod, yeah, and, and that’s not fair to either of you. So. I think it’s really, really important that you make it clear from the outset, how many hoops do they have to jump through? And just, you know, try and be fair about it, and make it clear that either, either they have to be ISO 9000 certified, or you just, they just have to be, you know,
Damon Pistulka 20:29
not be considered unless they meet the requirements.
Angela Thurman 20:32
Yeah, yeah, what is, what are the, what’s the Andy to to get to play at this table?
Damon Pistulka 20:38
Yeah, yeah. Well, that’s great, because it is, it is really important. And you obviously have been in some pretty complex projects and long term projects that really require that kind of kind of thinking. So if you’re going to tell somebody today, you know, what are some of the main things they want to look at, if they’re thinking about compliance and efficiency and project management. Where do they start? Or what are some key things I should say.
Angela Thurman 21:09
Number one, understand the requirements. Yeah. Number two, documentation. So this is where I kind of have a little bit of heartburn with agile. Agile is very, very light on documentation, and for me, I I want to know, and really, I’m in this position right now, if I’m stepping into the shoes of someone you know, who’s had a project for a while, I want to be able to find the documentation to to know what has been done up until this point. What are the expectations going forward? I don’t want to have to repeat anything that’s already been done that’s wasteful. So making sure that your that your documentation is thoughtfully and clearly organized is very, very helpful and easily accessible with those that have a need to know, yeah, because if you got all of the documents stored on your hard drive, and then you go on vacation and no one else can access that information for a week or two, that’s that’s a disservice
Damon Pistulka 22:36
to your team. Yes, yes, those are some great points. I mean, making making sure you’re well documented and it’s easily accessible. I think those are just like you said, having a good checklist, understand what you need, knowing what, what your your compliance regulations are, yeah, and then making sure that you’re well documented and you got access for your entire team. Those are some big things that will help you with your project, for sure,
Angela Thurman 23:02
because it almost always at some point you’re going to be audited if, if not, by a certifying body, you could be audited by a customer, and They’re going to want to see the evidence that you have these processes in place, and you have these these documents you you are following, you know, good quality standards and and so forth. You’ve got a QMS in place and and not only do, do you have a process, you’re following the process. Your employees know the process. They’re following the process and, and you have the required outputs. Yeah,
Damon Pistulka 23:58
yeah. Good stuff. Yeah, yeah, such good stuff. Well, Angela, I just want to thank you for coming by today and stop by and talking a little bit about project management and regulated manufacturing, you know, on the compliance and efficiency things. I appreciate you stopping by, and I want to say thanks to all the people that were listening. We had Yazan stop by and drop a comment, a thumbs up on us. Thanks for doing that. I can see we got other people watching. Thanks for Thanks for you being here today. Uh, appreciate you stopping by today. Angela,
Angela Thurman 24:34
oh, thank you. It’s my pleasure. All right. Well, thanks everyone
Damon Pistulka 24:38
for showing up, but if you got in here late, get back to the beginning, because Angela has some significant project management experience. You want to connect with her on LinkedIn if you haven’t already, because she is the person that I would go to for project management expertise, that’s for sure. Thanks again, and we’ll be back. Next week, Angela, hang out. We’ll finish up offline. Okay? Bye.
