44:55
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
hr, employees, leaders, shannon, business, work, company, happen, hr function, great, people, companies, talk, find, quick fixes, long, fall, point, creates, feel
SPEAKERS
Shannon Carriere, Damon Pistulka
Damon Pistulka 00:01
All right, everyone, welcome once again, the faces of business. I am your host, Damon pistulka, and we have a special guest with us today. We have Shannon carrier here. Today, we are going to be talking about enabling H, or using HR to enable business growth, because Shannon is awesome at helping people with HR. Shannon, welcome today.
Shannon Carriere 00:28
Oh, thank you. I’m so excited, so glad to be here.
Damon Pistulka 00:31
It’s going to be great. It’s going to be great. So excited. We can finally make this happen. Whew, lots of things happening for you, it’s summertime. Your sons are in baseball. Good stuff, maybe winding up with a little bit, but starting again later, this is awesome. We’re going to have some good stuff about that later, but first, I always like to share with our listeners the background of our guests so we can understand where people are coming from.
Shannon Carriere 01:00
Okay, wonderful. Thank you. So I have been in the HR world for just about 20 years, and spent most of my time adventuring through corporate in a variety of different roles and opportunities and really a chance to experience all the different areas I was fortunate enough to touch just about everything, very fortunate to not have to touch payroll. So I got through that pretty well. I’m excited so far, and just a few years ago, thought, you know, I could really take all of this and do something with it and maybe make some impacts on in a bigger way for me outside of that corporate world and transition to the consulting and fractional space. Nice,
Damon Pistulka 01:46
nice. So what drew you into HR?
Shannon Carriere 01:52
I think, like many, it was more. I fell into it. I started in hospitality, and I was in operations, and they needed somebody to do something like training, and no one was willing. And I was young and impressionable and said, I’ll do anything to look good. So I tried it, and I really fell in love with the training and development side, the kind of the culture shifting and things of that nature that you got to be a part of, yeah, and, and I think I just got hooked from there,
Damon Pistulka 02:26
yeah, that well, and it’s, I, it’s a lot different than the day to day work that you normally would get into at that point, and probably a little more people oriented as well, Right?
Shannon Carriere 02:39
And it was, it was fresh and exciting. And in hospitality, I was dealing with a bunch of customers who were frustrated. I mean, who knew that in the long run, I’d still be dealing with a bunch of customers that are frustrated are professional, but it’s a different it’s a different game, and getting up and facilitating, it’s a rush. It’s an excitement, from that day to day. You’re right. Very
Damon Pistulka 03:01
cool. Very cool. Well, Wow, we got, we got lots of comments already. So far. We got Sharon stopping by and going, woo hoo. So happy. Thanks for being here today, Sharon. We got Harry flares here again. Thank you, Harry for showing up. My friend. Happy Friday Eve. That’s what we like to hear, because we’re getting ready for that. Chasing four hands here. Hello, Damon, pistulka and Shannon. Awesome Chase. Jason. Thank you. Sorry if my lips are getting tongue tied here. And he talks again. Jason says, again. We fall into the work. I can’t tell you how many people that is. It’s like, How’d you get into I kind of fell into it. Yeah, it’s situations put us into those, those opportunities. That’s really is what it is.
Shannon Carriere 03:47
I like to think it’s state of some sort. Yes, we belong there somewhere. Yes.
Damon Pistulka 03:51
So do you really do? Okay, so you’ve been in it for more than a couple years. Do you Do you still have the same passion for it that you did when you started?
Shannon Carriere 04:01
Yes, and different, if you will, I no longer get the excitement of getting up in front of a group like I used to. I’ve kind of, I’m over it, right? I’m tired. I want to, I want to do things that that maybe have a little more behind the scenes impact. I would say, in fact, probably what I’m most passionate about these days is, is getting the HR experience to be very low drama people management, like, how can we take that, the intensity out of of how we’re managing people? Probably a couple ways I could describe that, yeah. That’d be great. Yeah. One is, is, is a common sense approach, right? We have to realize that all of us are humans, doing human activities, and it’s not about hierarchy or ego or power, like none of that stuff is going to move us forward. We have to come up with sensible solutions, with strong i. Company outcomes and not individual outcomes. So working away from thinking that leadership is all the things that belong, and really we’re one big team that all plays a part, and the second part of that is I really work hard to create low reaction environments. So I had a boss speaking of hospitality earlier, I had a boss early in that time, bless his heart, really steady, human like, got things done, pretty decent leader, but he had this one major flaw, and that’s when he had a few leaders who would escalate things really intensely. I mean, like one little, tiny thing would set them off, but they’d come stomping up to his office, or they’d be screaming on the phone. And he had a choice, right? He could sit and de escalate and try to work through that, or he could jump into their escalation. And he did every single time. And, I mean, the guy just had the knack for finding the wrong fire extinguisher for the wrong fire and things would just explode every single time. And I think it was those moments when I realized I don’t want to be that kind of leader. I don’t want to do that to people, and I don’t want to do it to myself, because the incredible stress level involved with that is is wild and and so I try to create environments where, no matter what’s happening, you’re not going to see me react, right? You could tell me something really big, and I’m just going to ask questions and try to understand, and then we’ll sort through solutions. I think that brings a lot to an organization
Damon Pistulka 06:46
that is huge. That is huge in I think if you’re bringing that to organizations, you can forget about everything else. Because if you can do that in organizations, that’s, that’s, that’s an incredible thing to do because, and I’ve I’ve seen it in some of the organizations I’ve been working with for a while now. And really it takes intentionality to be able to do it. But when you can do that, and you can go, Okay, we’re going to talk about something uncomfortable here, we all know it’s going to be uncomfortable, but we all know that we have to do it and we can do it professionally. It’s, it’s an incredible experience to be able to do that, yeah,
Shannon Carriere 07:28
and you get to results and good outcomes that much more quickly. And isn’t that what we all want? Yes,
Damon Pistulka 07:34
yes, and that’s that. But like you said, we have that choice to jump into that intensity, or we can choose to listen and let people talk and do whatever’s going to happen and then start to move forward with a different approach. That’s
Shannon Carriere 07:50
right. And I get it. Sometimes we’re bored and a little drama feels good, yeah, but as long as it’s not a constant thing, yes,
Damon Pistulka 07:58
yes, but it is it. And thinking back through, through my career and other times, you certainly do meet people that jump right onto that energy level that the coming in front of them, and there are others that they just pause and let, let, let the person talk and then help to de escalate and actually resolve things.
Shannon Carriere 08:20
And either way, it’s a learned behavior they’ve had along the way, whether at home or through their career and things that they’ve been trying to develop. So
Damon Pistulka 08:29
yes, well, and the good thing is, people can learn to change that,
Shannon Carriere 08:33
yeah, if you see the problematic nature of it, right?
Damon Pistulka 08:36
Yeah, yeah. I mean, for me, personally, it started years ago with just going count to 10 before you say stuff stupid.
Shannon Carriere 08:47
I mean, really, very nice to yourself.
Damon Pistulka 08:50
Well, I was nicer than that. But, I mean, just say count to 10. Yeah, in my you know, you just go back like that, and you don’t need to you really need to let things soak in a little bit. Did that
Shannon Carriere 09:05
work for you?
Damon Pistulka 09:05
Oh yes,
Shannon Carriere 09:06
yeah. Do you still count to 10, or do you use another method? Very, very
Damon Pistulka 09:11
few. I have to do because I can just, I listen. Just listen.
Shannon Carriere 09:15
It’s more natural now.
Damon Pistulka 09:17
Yeah, it’s more natural. I still feel it. Still feel it, especially if it’s it’s something that’s getting me, I still feel it, but I fight it back. I say, No, you have to listen. Yeah, sit there at the go through it. This is okay. You know, even though you feel your you feel your adrenaline starting to move into your body, you still just can’t say, let it go. Yeah, you’re breathing and listening, breathing and listening in the inside, you know that little devil just going crazy, but it has helped a lot. It’s helped a tremendous amount. Because, you know, you as as you said, you want to create an environment where people are doing work together, and people need to be able to bring. Their frustrations, and we have to understand that there are people that are going to be on varying degrees of of their personal development, their environment, that they were, that they grew up in, and and how they communicate. We have to be as leaders. We have to be able to respond to that and get them work together
Shannon Carriere 10:20
and that’s really the piece of it is. When you have a reactionary leader, whether it’s surprise or anger or anything, it creates unpredictability. And business, in and of itself, is already unpredictable. We don’t need as leaders to bring that same thing to the table. Yes,
Damon Pistulka 10:40
yes, good, good, good. Well, we got, we got a few. Jason said, stop the knee jerk reactions and get to the action of solving problems. Well done, Shannon. And then he also said, hashtag courageous conversations, which I think that’s I’ve be, I have, I appreciate those so much now, you know, because it’s, it’s easy when I think, when you don’t confront those things, it’s easy to push it away, right? We go, okay, okay, okay. And it just festers and gets really big, and then all of a sudden it comes out a lot worse if you don’t do it, and if you just say, Nope, we’re going to talk about it. Now, yeah,
Shannon Carriere 11:18
and that goes back to that idea of being common sense with your people, if you realize that it’s not about you and how you feel in a situation, it’s what they’re experiencing. And the sooner you can get to figuring that out and approaching about it, having a courageous conversation, or whatever conversation it looks like, the sooner you get to that, the sooner you get to results, getting our own egos out of the way or whatever.
Damon Pistulka 11:44
Yes, that’s awesome. Well, Barry says listening is so key, and it’s gonna just take a moment on that one. Yeah, this is something interesting. Harry says I see new HR names, Shannon like head of people, human capital management, talent management, partner resources. I always believe the name Human Resources was fine as long as you’re a good human who’s resourceful.
Shannon Carriere 12:14
Agreed it just that doesn’t fit in a business card anymore. So if I could fit that, maybe we could work it out. Yes,
Damon Pistulka 12:23
that would be good. That’d be good. So as you’re so we we have four generations of humans in the workplace today. We got people that are fed up with the fact that they can’t work remotely anymore. We got people that don’t want to work remotely. We got leaders that don’t know how to do hybrid we got people that it’s all these kind of things happening. So what are some of the things that you see as common traits in these companies you’re helping right now?
Shannon Carriere 12:58
I would say that if there’s one common trait for every single company I have probably ever helped, it’s that they get in their own way, over complicating a solution and to the point, and I’ll use this word, but I think it’s the best word can come up with, because it’s some sort of some subconscious fear of people and what they’re going to do. So as leaders, we sit around a room and we speculate, but what about this? And they’re going to think about this, and how are they going to react? And now, why don’t we just find out? Why don’t we just engage them, instead of sitting here and all this speculation and and similar to that, we often use generations in a in a generalized way we talk well, all of them are like this. All of the employees feel this way, all of the employees. But really do, does every single employee feel the exact same way? Or have we, have we not really gotten a clear pulse on it? So yeah, organizations, if they can slow down again, get out of their leadership, boardrooms or conference rooms or wherever they’re at in a zoom call and just go talk to them and find out what they really think. Don’t be afraid to ask a question that might get you an answer that’s unpleasant and you might get past something
Damon Pistulka 14:19
Yes. Don’t be afraid of the unpleasant answers. Oh, yeah, I’m writing that one down. Yeah, that’s a good one.
Shannon Carriere 14:33
And they’re usually the biggest gems, right? They’re the ones that stop us in our tracks and say, Oh, I didn’t realize that. And once we realize something we didn’t, then we start to move forward.
Damon Pistulka 14:47
Best gems that’s true though it’s true because it’s, it’s it’s like anything you the people closest or the people that are involved know better than the people that are leading them, usually how things. Are done, or what’s going on. So it’s great to do that. So as you’re as you’re helping companies, let’s talk about some of the typical situations that you see coming into companies that that could be landmines to growth, could be landmines to recruiting other things and just keeping the best talent they got.
Shannon Carriere 15:27
Gosh, I would say that that one varies from company to company, because there so many people are in just different stages. I often, I often work with companies who are in a turnaround stage, right? They’ve gone so far, and some things have gone wrong, and we’re trying to get out of it, or we’re trying to maybe prepare for a sale. We’d really like to sell, but we realize we’ve got some some issues that we need to fix up. And then sometimes, if I’m really lucky, I’ll talk with a company who says, I’ve done this before, and I messed up, and I don’t want to do it wrong the next time. So on some good days, we’ll I’ll talk to some folks that are in that stage. So I think that those are probably the most common. When I think about the the sales folks, it’s interesting because they almost have an idea in mind. I just want to fix things enough so I can sell. But that’s not always enough. To just be enough, if you will, yes, yes. And they’ll say, Well, okay, HR, due diligence, I just have to make sure that no one’s going to sue me. And if that’s good, then, then a buyer is going to be okay with it. And I think we have to go beyond just doing well enough that we haven’t hurt somebody to the point of litigation. That’s really it’s a really far extreme to dig into. If we could do something different and create value and maybe some sustainability, we put the organization in a really good position, whether you’re going to sell or not, because you may do some good things that make you think, maybe I want to hang on to this sucker because I’ve done some cool things with it. Yeah,
Damon Pistulka 17:16
I agree in that and that at that point. I mean, when we talk with people, and we’re going through, you know, restructuring or whatever they want to do as they’re preparing to exit or go to the next growth level, then exit, we always when we talk, we talk about we run the business type we’re never going to leave, and we want it to run as best we can, but we intend to sell it when it’s When it’s right time you run it like leave, but you know that you’re going to sell it when it’s the right time. And that’s why your HR decisions or investment decisions and other things are always done like that, so that we can make sure that these things are done because you’re right, doing just enough to get through due diligence oftentimes backfires, because just enough is easily seen. If somebody wants to go deep and good and good buyers know how to do it right. If
Shannon Carriere 18:12
you’re going to put your money into something, you want to know the
Damon Pistulka 18:15
details. Yes, yeah, yeah. Well, I
Shannon Carriere 18:17
have some tips for those who want to look at that if, if we have a few minutes to talk
Damon Pistulka 18:21
through, let’s do that. Let’s do that. So you got a few tips for people to consider if they’re going to get ready to sell,
Shannon Carriere 18:28
yeah, or if they’re not, and they just want to make a better business, that works too.
Damon Pistulka 18:32
Never make a better business. There we go. Yeah, I
Shannon Carriere 18:35
think so. One of the very first foundational things is, when we look at compliance, people think though about compliance is okay? Do I have my posters up and did I do a handbook? Great. I’m awesome. I’m done. And it’s really so much more than that, because you can have those things in place, but you’re still pretty exposed to liability if you don’t know what to do with them. So you have to have processes that that feed into the policies that you put together. So say, for example, Department of Labor, you are required to allow meal and break times for employees and states differentiate you know how much and which. So it’s different each place, but either way, it’s there. So you put in your handbook all employees must have a 30 minute meal break. Great. You did your job, right? You’re all done. They’re going to do it. It’s all set. We don’t have to think twice. Of course not. So you have to look at one, are you holding them accountable to that? Two, do you actually have systems that allow for tracking that meal period when it comes to something like a time in attendance? If you don’t actually have a system that’s supporting you and you’re not doing your work to hold them accountable, it doesn’t exist. You didn’t do it, and now you’re exposed to liability. Ooh, great point. Yeah, because if you can’t prove that you did, there’s nothing. Nothing exists. Similar, if you have 15 or more employees, you’re subject to the American disability with Disabilities Act, of course, which tells you not to discriminate against people with disabilities. And so you can say that in a policy, great. It’s in the handbook, we’re not going to discriminate. But if a disability actually exists within your within your pool of people, or you perceive it exists within your pool of people, you are responsible for taking specific steps in approaching accommodations to prevent discrimination. So if you’re not actively taking steps to prevent it, you are exposed to liability
Damon Pistulka 20:48
actively taking steps. So we gotta see, what are you talking about there?
Shannon Carriere 20:53
Well, it’s, it’s a lot more detailed than, I don’t want to bore the entire, the entire audience here, but there, there’s a there’s a process to have interactive discussions with an employee, and you have to walk through that process and find options and availabilities and engage them in conversation, in a certain method, in a certain set of steps, in order to be compliant.
Damon Pistulka 21:21
That’s something, that’s something I did not know, that’s for sure. Ah, so
Shannon Carriere 21:25
it’s more than just a handbook, right? You actually have to have the the the processes and the actions that come along with what you’ve got in that handbook. Yeah,
Damon Pistulka 21:35
yeah. All right, so that’s number two. Let’s go to the next
Shannon Carriere 21:37
one. Yeah, that was number one. That was number one, number 91, number two,
Damon Pistulka 21:42
clients and, Ada, well, yeah, and then, then, you know, when you get over 50, it’s a whole nother thing that you have to deal with. And we got some clients in that situation, and it’s, yeah, it does. I mean, they, they’re it, the processes have to be behind these things. Because, like you said, if you don’t have a process, you aren’t tracking, you aren’t doing
Shannon Carriere 22:05
exactly that’s it. Yeah, the second one I would really take a look at is performance, and this is twofold, because there’s an opportunity to show a buyer that your employees are dedicated, engaged. They’re working towards goals. If you have performance plans in action, and if I want to buy a business and I ask, are the employees worth keeping? You’re going to tell me they’re amazing because you love them. You’ve been with them for years, right? But if you could show me that they are amazing. Over a period of a few years, you’re building credibility. I’m gaining confidence that maybe there’s some real value here in the business and well, not to mention, if you’re if you are working with the team on goals that make the business more valuable in other ways, then you’re also making the business more valuable in other ways, yeah, and putting those pieces together. So win, win. And really, you’re giving your employees a chance because your buyer is confidently hearing from you that they are a must have, so they already have a leg up. So if, if we are, if they are bringing employees over, they’re going to know long ahead of time who I want to bring, because you’ve got evidence that shows that they’re strong players.
Damon Pistulka 23:32
And that’s a great point, because we talk a lot with with sellers and preparing businesses, getting those businesses ready for sale, but I really hadn’t thought about it in terms of this. If you have a solid performance reviews, and you can show that your key management team, you know, they’ve been there for however long, but this is what their reviews say, and they’re showing that they have, you know, they’re continuing to develop. There are things that are good bad, but they’re overall, they’re really solid. That’s a that’s a big thing.
Shannon Carriere 24:01
Wouldn’t that make you excited? Yes,
Damon Pistulka 24:04
yes, it
Shannon Carriere 24:06
would. Me Like, if I’m thinking about I’m like, wow, they’ve real. They’re really settled there. So maybe there’s something else in the cell that that isn’t as desirable, or, I think might require a little more time and effort, but if I know I’ve got a solid employee base, yes, it’s easier to say yes, yeah.
Damon Pistulka 24:24
That’s a huge aspect that I hadn’t really considered deeply enough that’s for sure. Yeah. And also, like you said, it’s just getting the that specific kind of feedback and conversations with those employees too,
Shannon Carriere 24:44
and the engagement with them takes them, takes them further, and makes them more connected with the organization, which leads me to the third piece you really have to understand at the beginning. And. Soon as you possibly can your market compensation and an equity standing. So when a business is turning over, there’s a lot of work to be done. There’s a lot of stress that comes along with it, and then employees who aren’t don’t have that connection with the business, whether it be because they’ve got loyalty and they’ve they feel good about their work and they’re not being reasonably paid, or they know that they’re off in equity, they’re going to be more likely, in the midst of the transition to go find something else with, I don’t know, less turmoil, even if it’s at the same wage rates, because they understand they’re walking into a challenging situation for a period of time. And so if you’re checking this early and communicating clearly with the teams, you may have some more peace of mind with the sustainability throughout the employee transition, because you have to ask yourself, if you are strong enough in the market with your people to sustain a four to six month significant change over Yeah, because it can take that long for a new owner to get acquainted and adjusted and build trust,
Damon Pistulka 26:16
that’s a great point, because it is, it is really about you look at what you’re talking about, make sure you’re compliant, make sure you’re proving that. Make sure that your performance reviews are being done and and you really have the right people in right places, and show that. And then you look at the last one, if they’re they’re properly compensated. You know, you you’ve got a really solid foundation to to show that your team is good, and they’re gonna and
Shannon Carriere 26:49
they’re gonna stick around, and so the owner doesn’t have the new owner doesn’t have to stress that they can work on the things that may be more labor or mind intensive.
Damon Pistulka 26:59
Yes, yes, good stuff, good stuff. And that was, that was something that came up in a conversation last week. I think it was, we were talking about it and talking about the cultural integrations in a in a murder, and the challenges are those. And this, this is also something that would would help to really get that the compensation, like you said, to keep people through that smooth through that uneven time, because there is an uneven time, I don’t care if it’s if you’re bringing in five employees or 5000 employees, there’s going to be an uneven time or just a rough Time, because things change. They just do
Shannon Carriere 27:41
because it’s uncertain and it’s different, and no one, no one trusts in the way that they would like to trust to feel comfortable. It’s lacking comfort. And I’m a strong believer that that culture is a product of the systems that we put in place. And if we don’t have systems that support what we believe, then things can easily fall apart. Yeah,
Damon Pistulka 28:04
yes. Very cool. So you said something. I don’t know if it was when we were on now or before we got on. So, oh yes, companies and turnaround, I we’ve had a lot of tech companies, a lot of other companies, laying people off. I mean, it’s not, we’re not, you know, in a free fall down, you know, downward spiral in our economy. But this there just seems like, over the last year and a half or two years, there have been in certain sectors, some pretty heavy layoffs. And what are you seeing if people are faced with that, or a couple things that they can do that can help them lessen the blow? I don’t know, not not do it so poorly. I mean, look at all the horrible examples we have people doing it. You know, letting 1000s of people go on Zoom, or not even telling them, just coming in, coming in, and their stuff doesn’t work, or their keys don’t work, and, you know, and all this kind of stuff.
Shannon Carriere 29:11
I wish we could, we could fix that. I think what you’re seeing there are acts of desperation where they really missed the boat, probably one to two years prior to this situation and seeing everything that they should have seen, and now they have no other way out. So those are very salvageable. And unfortunately, when, when, when we’re in an environment that we kind of allow for those kinds of quick fixes to happen, right? If you’re, if you’re publicly traded, companies are being rewarded for making quick fixes like that. I don’t think we’re going to see much change. And those are band aids. And they think, Wow, this, this band aid worked. It’s going to work again. So I don’t think there’s a lot of motivation to change, to change that overall behavior. Behavior and with larger companies, honestly, sometimes it’s just so much so out of hand. You have 30,000 employees plus plus employees, it’s probably going to cost you just as much money to work into a turnaround than it would to do the quick fix. So I hate to say that, but there’s not a ton of motivation there. Yeah, but if we as companies are always thinking about those results, if we’re always thinking about avoiding complacency in our work to make sure that again, we’re not looking at frivolous outcomes, but we’re trying to keep the business running and and we put our efforts towards some of these things that I’ve talked about, making sure you have the fundamental systems in place. You’re going to see the red flags that maybe we’re overspending, or maybe we’re over hiring a lot sooner than you do otherwise, if you’re not watching that, if maybe you’re focused on, on things that are good, like innovation, but because of that, it distracts you from the fundamentals. It’s just more likely,
Damon Pistulka 31:09
yeah, and I think you hit the nail on the head. And all these points here first, and even the last one was just drove the point home is you can only focus on innovation so long before the money catches up. You know, I’d say that’s what happened to a lot of these people. We, we and, you know, we got caught up in thinking. People think it’s going to go great forever. And they, you know, they massive hiring and and, like you said, if you don’t have the right systems in place to see when it’s time to start tapering that off, to really let the business absorb it and see where you’re at you you’re going to go into the cyclical balance of in and out of that
Shannon Carriere 31:52
exactly. And like I shared earlier, sometimes we’re chasing the drama and in something like innovation, or some of these really sexy ideas are are wonderful and they’re exciting. You just have to balance that with with with the with the positive influence things that allow you to innovate more and realize that, that that if you have these things going on that’s going to give you more of that high that you’re looking for. Yes,
Damon Pistulka 32:20
yes, good stuff. Jamie says, totally agree about compensation equity, and it is no small, not a small undertaking, to do that analysis. No, it’s not. It’s not. And there, there are some good tools that will help an awful lot on that. And it is something that it’s it’s not easy. It’s not easy, and especially if you’ve overlooked it for a long time, it’s,
Shannon Carriere 32:47
it’s not just about knowing what the job is worth in the market. It’s knowing what the job is worth to you and understanding how you’re utilizing that and that that creates a complexity that a lot of people, maybe outside of manufacturing, don’t really do job valuation Well,
Damon Pistulka 33:02
and that’s that is a great point, because we we’ve worked with other clients, other industries outside of manufacturing, and they oftentimes do not look at it that way, like you do in manufacturing. You know how many dollars are generated by a certain station or certain work cell, whatever it is. And that really helps you understand what you you know, what that person is generating, how much they can be, they they can be paid, and everything, with everything working out the way you want to be. It’s huge. It’s huge for you to understand that.
Shannon Carriere 33:37
Imagine if we did that in some of these and some of these tech companies to understand what of our roles are, revenue generating and and truly and truly investment oriented, and then watching that balance to a comfort level, yeah, change the game.
Damon Pistulka 33:54
Yeah. That’s for sure. That’s for sure. Yeah, Harry always coming in with some great comments, how about thinking about doing the right thing? And that always seems to work the best. That’s, that’s a great approach. They the in these, in these turnarounds, though, I think you’re right. The one, one thing that I’ve always and it’s, and honestly, it’s the reason why I moved out of investment on businesses, is that as an investment owned businesses, whether it’s a private investor, owned or publicly traded company, the the necessity or our our demands as investors of have driven it, the demands of shareholders have have driven these kind of actions, and we have very little tolerance for someone that stands up and says the right thing to do in our company. Now, just imagine this, if, if someone just pick figurehead at a big company right now, and if they stood up and said, Well, you know the right thing. Thing for us to do is we’re going to retrain all of our employees, and we’re gonna lose a billion dollars this year doing it, but we think in three years, it’s gonna make us a stronger place. They’re gonna get laughed out of the market, right?
Shannon Carriere 35:13
And that’s where your really great CEOs come in. Because they’re not saying, I’m going to do this and we’re going to lose on this. They’re saying, I’m going to put my neck on the line. I believe that I can make something happen. I take ownership. I will take the risk. I believe that if I do this, I will get you the results you want. And if we have CEOs that are willing to take that kind of risk, I think they’re being heard a little bit more
Damon Pistulka 35:41
that is incredible, incredible, incredible, I believe 100% and you know that they shirk back and and fall too, too conservatively, sometimes with that, and It costs us dearly in terms of people, we
Shannon Carriere 36:01
especially as leaders, and especially the way the market is as it is right now, we are covering our own butts to stay steady, and we try to drag it along as long as we can. But imagine if we took a little risk, how much more successful we would have a chance to be.
Damon Pistulka 36:19
I love that stand up saying, This is what we’re doing. I believe it’s going to be great, and putting themselves on the line, good stuff. So as you’re looking forward, I always like to ask, what is exciting you about people and HR and business right now.
Shannon Carriere 36:45
I’m really excited about combating this idea that has become trendy, that that I can run a business without a people function. And I think I don’t know who’s doing it. I’ve seen some podcasts and some and some Instagram reels of people saying, I ran my whole business without it, and I don’t need this. And I really, I really like getting out there and talking to people and letting them know you’re right. You don’t need an HR department like you think you had one before, but people are your biggest expense. People are your biggest investment. So you can choose to let them on their own and do nothing. That’s an option. You can choose to have the leaders in your organization handle it, some probably with good abilities, some with not but by doing that, you’re taking your great sales leaders, your great marketing leaders, your great revenue leaders, everything else out there away from the thing they do best. So if they had the support of someone with knowledge and expertise and experience in managing these tough things and taking some of that pain out of the way, where could your business go? So sure do it without one but also you’re wasting the talent on your team that you spend a whole lot of money to bring on.
Damon Pistulka 38:27
Yes, because the HR function doesn’t go away. It just means that your, if your leaders are doing it, they’re doing things that would normally be done by somebody else. They’re Yeah, it’s
Shannon Carriere 38:39
doesn’t go away. Yeah, yeah, it doesn’t go away. Yeah. And I hope you know I’m only one person, but I think that there’s a lot to be done to shift away from the traditional understanding and reputation of who HR is. And while I certainly have met a few folks that that maybe are operating in a more personnel way. It’s usually company driven and not necessarily driven by by the human in the HR function. People behave in HR the way the company wants to. That’s a CEO’s decision, not the HR functions decision,
Damon Pistulka 39:26
yeah, because they’re largely, in some of those situations, just enforcing policy or making sure, training on policy and making sure it’s happening. Yeah,
Shannon Carriere 39:37
well, and if you’re a CEO and you want your sales leader to do a better job and sell more. You talk to them and ask them to sell more. An HR leader is the same thing. So what you want them to do better is what you tell them to do better. So if you tell them to get a handle on cost. Costs, they’re gonna go get a handle on costs. And that creates reputation. If you tell them they need to get a handle on performance, they’re gonna go do that. And that creates a reputation. If you tell them you want everybody to be happier, they might just go do that. And that creates a reputation. So it’s all just a functionality. We put a lot of pressure on, on HR, as if, as if they made it all up. But it’s really, it’s really however the organization works, yes,
Damon Pistulka 40:25
yes, huh, that’s awesome, because you can, you can develop the right reputation if you want to.
Shannon Carriere 40:38
You certainly can. You certainly can with the right leaders, with the right guidance, with the right expectations. That’s all it takes. Yeah,
Damon Pistulka 40:51
good stuff. So we’re about about with our time here. If you had to tell the people listening one thing about HR, they might want to consider, I mean, this last one was a great, great one, but
Shannon Carriere 41:11
I only have so many.
Damon Pistulka 41:12
Okay, we can move to the next one. But if you got one more thing that you would like to tell them, what would it be?
Shannon Carriere 41:23
I would say, don’t be scared. I’m telling I’m telling leaders out there to go talk to your people. I’m telling people and and everyone to go talk to your HR people. Because I think if you just ask them where they’re coming from and tried to understand where things are, you might break down a few barriers where, right now you’re seeing a lot of frustration.
Damon Pistulka 41:45
Yes, love it. Go out and talk to the people, talk to the people, ask the hard questions. Always good, that’s right, stinks at the moment, once it allows me and yeah, well, Shannon, we’ve got a very important question here, because before we got on, we were talking about, your sons enjoy baseball.
Shannon Carriere 42:10
That is true.
Damon Pistulka 42:11
So you are. You just need to imagine yourself for this question to really come, come to you. Okay, so you’re, you’re at a Rockies game, you know your whole family, you’re having a great time, and all of a sudden you find yourself in the dugout and the the manager, coach, head coach, it’s the bottom of the ninth. There’s two outs they need. Then there’s a guy, there’s a person on second base. Okay, high score. They need to win this game over. Said Shannon, you’re going in. Grab your helmet, grab your bat, knock this run in. I got dinner reservations in an hour, and I need to be there. Okay, what is your walk up song?
Shannon Carriere 43:09
What is my walk up song? Um, so, uh, Pitbull. I don’t know about you, but I feel good.
Damon Pistulka 43:19
There we go. That is awesome. I knew being a baseball mom, baseball fan, you would have it.
Shannon Carriere 43:27
Always gonna have one ready, right? Yes,
Damon Pistulka 43:29
yeah, good stuff. Well. Shannon, so much. Thank you. It’s been an awesome having you here today and so much great information shared for those of you listening, I want you to go back, if you got in late, go back to the beginning. Start listening to Shannon from the beginning. And, oh, I forgot to ask too, Shannon, what’s the best way for someone to get a hold of you if they want to contact you? Talk to you about HR. Just got some questions. Yeah.
Shannon Carriere 43:55
LinkedIn is a beautiful place, and you can reach me on email, Shannon at Carrier hr.com, all
Damon Pistulka 44:01
right. So we will do that, and we will be back again. But first I wanted to say thank you. Barry, Harry, chasin, Jamie, who we have? Sharon, I’m I hope I didn’t miss anybody. I didn’t okay. I’m pretty good for dropping the comments today. Appreciate that. And like I said, if you got in late, go back to the beginning, Shannon. Look, I got like, three pages of notes from this conversation. Thank you. It’s there’s lots of good stuff in here. And reach out to Shannon if you haven’t talked to her. Want to talk to her. Want to learn more about how she’s helping companies with their HR and enabling using their HR to enable business growth and prepare for a sale. Thanks, everyone. Hang out just for a minute. Shannon, we’ll finish up offline. Everybody else, have a great rest of your week. We’ll be back again.
Shannon Carriere 44:53
Thank you. Bye.
