• 49:44
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Manufacturing websites, sales optimization, digital strategy, customer focus, user experience, content management, trade shows, marketing investment, sales enablement, AI tools, website updates, customer profiles, business integrity, cash flow, digital natives.
SPEAKERS
Speaker 1, Judd Lyon, Curt Anderson, Damon Pistulka
Damon Pistulka 00:02
All right, everyone, it’s Friday, and you know what that means? It is time for stop being the best kept secret. It’s going to be a great day today, you know? And I just realized, Mr. Anderson, I’m Damon Pistulka, I’m one of the CO hosts here, but we are, you and I Kurt, are like, mixed. I was like, What the heck is going on here? We’ve done so many shows, and there’s on the wrong side, so kind of like, all thrown off, right? But we’re in stop being the best kept secret today, and we’re going to talk about optimizing manufacturing websites to drive more sales. Kurt, I’m gonna let you take it away, because we’re gonna be talking to Judd Lyon here and having a lot of fun.
Curt Anderson 00:40
Man. Damon, I can’t you know what an appropriate last name, because this guy’s gonna be roaring today. Damon, I’ll tell you, man, so I know Judd. I’m sure you’ve never heard that one before, but let’s This is an honor and a privilege. Judd and I connected not too long ago, and he just has a fierce, wonderful passion of helping manufacturers. It really is just a great fit for what we’ve been talking about here, Damon, for, my goodness, six years already. And so, Judd, Happy Friday to you, dude. Thanks for joining us. How are you, man, I’m
Judd Lyon 01:09
doing great. Happy Friday to you guys, and I appreciate the opportunity to come on, and I’m super excited to talk shop here.
Curt Anderson 01:15
Oh, my goodness, thank you, man, this is our honor and privilege. So, Judd, let’s, let’s, you know what, dude, we’re not pulling any punches. We’re going to dive right in. This is going to we’re going to go fast and furious. You’re sitting down. You ready for this one? John, I’m ready to rock and roll. Hang out your desk, dude, because here we go. Judd, when you’re a young man growing up. Now we’re going to cover a few things. So you’re coming to us from Atlanta, Georgia. You’ve got a little bit of Austin, Texas in you. You’ve got some San Francisco. But if I understand correctly Salt Lake City might have been in your background. Do I have that correct? Correct?
Judd Lyon 01:44
Yes. I grew up in the in the mean streets of the suburbs of Salt Lake City, Utah,
Curt Anderson 01:49
mean streets of Salt Lake City, my friend. So hey, here’s my question for you, dude. Judd Lyon, when you were a little guy growing up on those Mean Streets in the suburbs of Saint of Salt Lake City, Say that five times fast, when you were a little guy growing up, who was your hero? Who did you look up to? Who did you worship? Who just showered you with unconditional love? Who was your hero when you
Judd Lyon 02:12
were a kid growing up? Yeah. Well, I my dad. Number one was a, was sold pacemakers and defibrillator. Oh, did he really Yeah, and so he was a, he had a great work ethic, and it’s something that I, I, you know, I looked up to as a young man, because he was always traveling and, you know, always had a, you know, dressed well, and had a nice car, and I didn’t quite put together why, but he always took pride in, like, having, you know, in his profession. And so it’s something that sunk in a little bit more as I’ve gotten older. So maybe I’m maybe this is a little revisionist history to, like, dial it back, that I appreciated it then, but it’s something as a grown man, I’ve really appreciated that he took pride in the way he kind of conducted himself professionally, and his how reliable he was. And so, yeah, definitely looked up to him. Also, I’m huge into athletics and basketball, so I was of the era you guys will probably remember Magic Johnson and Larry Bird. Were, you know that rivalry? Yeah, way back when. So those love those guys also love the bash brothers on the old Oakland A’s of Jose go and Mark McGwire, yeah,
Curt Anderson 03:22
dude, man, you ran off some good ones. So let’s let, alright, we’ll cover those, and we’re gonna alright. So dad later. Yeah, what’s dad’s name, please? David, David. So alright. So David Lyon, big shout out to David. And just Apple didn’t fall far from the tree. You know what? Damon, I don’t know if you know about, notice about like, he’s, like, he’s, borderline, like, too good looking to be on the show right now. Like, I just, I like, I’m feeling kind of like, like, he’s just such a handsome guy. Mike, he’s, he’s really probably too handsome to be on the show with us. Don’t you think, oh my god, I’m going to turn red you guys. So I judge. So hey, big shout out to David. And, you know, just having a role model, man of integrity, curing himself well. And just, you know, and you exude the same thing, dude, Larry Bird and Magic Johnson, man, those were, like, I know, like anybody under the age of 50, you’re like, What are you talking about?
Damon Pistulka 04:10
Hey, go watch the special that was on the the Lakers. It was awesome.
Curt Anderson 04:14
Yeah, yeah. Those were that, I tell you, that magic and Larry Bird Class Act and just those are great times. And then the Oakland A’s the bash brothers, man, yeah, those were some good times too, right?
Judd Lyon 04:26
Yeah, that’s, that’s actually, I had an aunt who lived in Oakland, and I loved that team. And when my uncle married her, I took a couple trips as a young man out to the Bay Area. And that’s really what caught my fascination of on the Bay Area, and that’s how I ended up out in San Francisco for college, was there’s just, there’s just this. There’s a there’s an energy to the bay that’s full of, full of incredibly bright people and absolute weirdos, and it’s just a one, and it’s just geographically spectacular. So it was just, I always was fascinated with. As a kid, and I ended up there San Francisco, state later. So that’s that was kind of like the bash brothers, somehow, in a weird way.
Curt Anderson 05:08
Man, what a great and Judd, thank you. That was a perfect segue right into my next question. So ironically, and we didn’t plan this, I was going to ask you, like, hey, what brought you to San Francisco? So talk a little bit about your academic journey again, like went to college in San Francisco, you ended up at University of Texas, your Longhorn, right?
Judd Lyon 05:26
And so I got to do the obligatory, you know, Damon horns, or I’ll get in trouble in the on LinkedIn here.
Curt Anderson 05:32
That’s right, that’s right. So just talk a little bit like so young guy growing up, Dad, your hero. You’ve got all these sports heroes. You go into college and you’re just super fired up. What were you, know, what career were you pursuing at that time?
Judd Lyon 05:45
Yeah, so I actually played a year of junior college basketball, and was humbled at a place it used to be called Dixie. It was kind of a feeder school for UNLV. It was down on the Utah, Arizona border, and I got humbled real quick. There were a couple guys that ended up in the NBA, on my team, and it was like, Oh, I don’t know if I’m going to be playing basketball. There’s levels, you know, in every in every field, there’s levels
Curt Anderson 06:08
to it, yeah, oh, okay, when you get out of high school, not quite as, you know, oh, gee, I’m not quite as good as I thought.
Judd Lyon 06:14
Yeah, college ball is a different a different animal. Wow, the court shrank. Everyone’s enormous. Yeah, I had, I had a year of that, and then after that, I was very interested around this is right at kind of like, turn of the century. Grew up as kind of a late 90s kid when we had the, if you guys remember the, you know, really going to date myself here, computer in the family room, yeah, shared computer, getting on the internet, waiting forever for something that you know, for an image or a video to download. And I just loved the internet. It was like cable TV with unlimited channels. And so I was interested in kind of media production. I was into music video, that sort of thing. And so San Francisco State had a program called broadcast and electronic communication arts. It’s called Becca. I don’t know if it’s still called that. And a friend of mine from from Utah shout out to Kyle. We said, we’re going to leave Utah. We’re going to go to the most un Salt Lake place possible, which is San Francisco, and we’re going to move right in the middle of the city. We lived in the mission and in Bernal Heights, and we went to San Francisco State. So that was, went there. And it was all about, you know, we were cutting reel to reel audio. And, you know, we had outdated equipment. Yeah, everything was starting to be digitized. And lucky for me, I had, I was right on the heels of the.com blow up. So the money was drying up out there. The hype was dying down a little bit, and all of my I had some amazing instructors, and they said, Hey, this stuff’s fine and great, but you want everything’s going digital. I promise you, everything’s going digital. Learn to write for digital media. Learn to produce digital media like this, this, this stuff, you know, broadcast is kind of on its way out. So anyhow, I had, I had a professor there who told me he made a joke one day about Texas and about their advertising program. He said, Yeah, they’ve got a great communications program. But then he made a joke about something about cows or something along those lines. And I didn’t know Austin wasn’t on my radar at all. I’d never been to Texas, and so yeah, I ended up, one thing led to another. I ended up applying to grad school at University of Texas in their advertising program, and was fortunate enough to get accepted there, and then went and had a had an amazing time, and like most, like probably half the people in Austin, you just end up staying because you have too much fun. And you’re like, No, I guess I’ll just stay a while. And then, you know, you look up and you’re you’ve been there 10 years.
Curt Anderson 09:01
So, alright, so when talk about, when you slid into web design, and then how, like, how did manufacturing, you know, again, it’s really a tight niche, right? That B to B industrial spark. What led you there?
Judd Lyon 09:14
Yeah, so, so the interest in the in the computers. I assembled a PC, I convinced my dad that I needed a computer that could edit video. And back then you needed, you know, you needed some serious, yeah, horsepower, and so, yeah, one Christmas, I put together a PC, I ordered all the parts, and, you know, sat there and on the carpet like, Oh, great. What do I do now? But anyway, kind of unlocked something, and I didn’t have, at the end of the project, I didn’t have enough money to buy a copy of Windows, so I ended up installing Linux, and that kind of changed my life. I got used to the command line and started learning about programming, and I was Yeah, and I was already a big internet fan, so I kind of, like, got excited about it, and then I started freelancing for beer money in San Francisco. I. Actually, I was built a website for a staffing agency, and we were trying to rank it for, you know, San Francisco staffing agency, and I worked for a pet store. I didn’t, I didn’t know what a database was, so I literally created like 2000 products by hand in Dreamweaver back in the day. So anyhow, I kind of caught the bug in San Francisco. And then when I went to study advertising, as we all entered the job market, everyone wants to work at all the cool ad agencies, and it’s hyper competitive. And they said, digital skills, digital skills. And I got rejected at this job, and it really stung. And I remember going outside and kind of like sitting in my car thinking they said they wanted digital skills. Why I know how to make websites. I’m never going to be more broke than I already am right now. I’m just going to try freelancing again. And one thing led to another. I had a client who someone who actually spoke in one of my classes, who was starting a startup out of his carport at his house, you know, very, very startup type energy. And he asked me, say, Hey, I’m not exactly sure what you can do, but you want to come help me. You seem like you’re into the internet stuff. I said I would love to. And he ended up getting his very bright guy named Jason Renault, and it was called Mind bites. He actually raised venture capital, and we put together a team. And it’s a great, formative experience. I’m still in touch with a lot of that team, but, yeah, I just kind of went straight out of grad school and started freelancing again. And then I, you know, got a referral here, referral there. And that was 20 something, you know, that was 2007 so we’re not quite hit 20 years, but manufacturing the answer to make, to give you a long answer to a short question. I got into manufacturing by subcontracting for an agency, and they this multi brand company called Pro mock. They had a unique challenge that they had a lot of brands, but they wanted to centralize the way they wanted to manage them from an, you know, in an efficient way online, because it’s it’s tricky to manage lots and lots of websites and lots of brands, and so it’s through a subcontracting gig. I was a specialist in a particular content management system at the time, and one thing led to another, and they said, Yeah, we make these big packaging machinery. This must have been 2010 2011 ish. I said, Yeah, I can build a site like that. Let’s try it. And then, of course, I was way past budget and overdue because I got in over my head. But yeah, that’s how I got into it. I said, Man, I saw the numbers they were doing, and it kind of opened my eyes to I’d been working in early stage startups that go out of business every Yeah, yeah. Change their business model every six months. And so yeah. Anyhow, I was like, wow, this is really interesting. They’ve got a lot of revenue. It’s kind of this cool behind the scenes. It’s kind of like a real life version of watching how it’s made. And so it’s like, yeah, I kind of caught the bug. And so ever since then, I didn’t exclusively do manufacturing since then, but they were, they were kind of a core client, and I’ve since then, just kind of like kept dialing in a little bit more. I know you’re big on preaching, you know, niching down, yeah, and focusing on that, that soulmate client, or that ICP, where you really, like, drill in. And they kind of became that for me. And so since then, I’ve, you know, really enjoy working with with manufacturers.
Speaker 1 13:27
Yeah, well, well, go ahead,
Damon Pistulka 13:30
when you’re doing stuff with manufacturers too, you said how it’s made. You know, the videos, snippets you can get, and the other things of actually watching things being made are just like mesmerizing, and it really capture attention well. And, I mean, that’s the that’s one of the coolest things I think about people that that companies that really take the time to incorporate video into their websites, they just grab so much attention with
Judd Lyon 13:56
that absolutely, I couldn’t tell you how much time I I shouldn’t say wasted, but maybe was off task. I would get a hold of some of the 3d models. Oh, yeah, video, you know, they’d send me these huge like, CAD files, or these before files. They say, yeah, we’ve got a new packaging line coming out soon. And I would, they said, Yeah, we need to get this posted. I would sit there and watch it. And, yeah, you’re right. There’s something hypnotic about repetition and the flow, and then seeing something transform right before your eyes is a really cool, cool thing, absolutely.
Curt Anderson 14:32
Judd, that’s a classic line, man, I’m totally stealing that next time I, you know, like, if I’m, you know, Hey, are you wasting time? No, I, I just got off task. I’m sorry, right?
Judd Lyon 14:41
Yeah, yeah, just a little off task. I’m just, you know, you know,
Curt Anderson 14:45
scrolling for an hour. I just got off task for a second. Yeah, I’m just kidding. So Damon,
Damon Pistulka 14:50
what were you going to add? No, I just think that, you know, in a manufacturing setting, like you working with with a lot of larger manufacturers, and you. Uh, specifically, you talked about the packaging. You know, there are things the technical people that have to go out and specify and buy that they want to see that movement. They want to see how things come together, and because they’re envisioning it in their mind, or what they see a solution being all the way down to what’s the footprint it’s going to take, you know, and by giving them more that visual part of it, they can, they can really understand so much more about the solution that you provide.
Judd Lyon 15:30
Absolutely, I and this has been, this has always been true in that you have to have everyone’s a little bit different. There’s some that like, you know, PDFs, and they just want spec after spec. And then there’s people who are more visual. There’s people who want that interactive experience of, like, a 3d model, and so, yeah, providing that kind of breadth of depending on who the buyer is, kind of tailoring, you know, offering that flexibility for how they want to buy and making sure. And also, these, you guys know this well, in manufacturing, these are large, you know, capital expense, yeah,
Damon Pistulka 16:09
yeah, yep, oh, he froze up for
Judd Lyon 16:12
a second. And so this is, these are decisions that are made as a team or by committee, yeah. And so, you know, someone from procurement is looking at a different set of criteria than someone you know, than an engineer for you know, who may be different than the project leader. And so there’s definitely this kind of, like, multi faceted thing that you got to make sure you’re you’ve got what they need to make an informed, an informed purchase. Yeah, yeah.
Curt Anderson 16:39
I love that. So if so, Judd, I want to, I know you’re a humble guy, but if you don’t mind, I’m sharing your website right here, and I just, I love this line, but I strongly encourage again, if you’re just joining us, we’re here with our dear friend Judd Lyon. He is a superstar at helping manufacturers with really powerful web strategy, web design, and so, you know, and we’ve, we’ve started kind of jumping ahead, covering a little things. One question I’d love to ask Judd is, how do you make the world a better place? So talk a little bit about your approach. We strongly encourage folks connect with Judd on LinkedIn. You can go to his website simply Judd Lyon, and there’s all sorts of great information on your website. Talk a little bit about like, how your approach and I’d love to ask, how do you make the world a better place?
Judd Lyon 17:24
Sure, that’s, that’s a big that’s a big question. And I one thing, if you were to talk to clients or colleagues, a couple things that are really important to me. And I think sometimes, you know, I’m sure I’ve left money on the table over the years, but it’s one of those things where I can, I can I can always sleep at night, and I can always current clients, past clients. It’s important to me, you mentioned the word integrity earlier. But one thing now I’m getting all serious and emotional here with this big with this big question, one of the things I really try and do much more so, and it’s why I kind of label myself more as a consultant, because at some point I spend a lot of time trying to understand my clients business and so versus just jumping in and being a solution provider and being a vendor and having that transactional relationship of, you know, go slap together a website, put this, this and this, upload this, and we’ll pay this this much money. I want to know how the web fits into their marketing strategy. I want to know how the marketing strategy fits into their business strategy. And I really probably, it probably annoys them, to be honest, but I really front load that. And I want to know who the team is, kind of what makes them tick. And one of the things that, you know, in my own humble way, of like, you know, out here, out here, making a living and trying to help manufacturers, is there’s always, you know, I love technology as much as anyone, but it’s here to it’s supposed to help make our lives easier, and it’s always a game of people, you know, they say, like, like, no limit, Hold’em. Is a game of people played with cards. I kind of see that with technology and with business, and so one of the things I spend a lot of time thinking about is the composition of the team that I’m working with, and what’s actually doable, and what would actually be helpful, given the way their business works. And sometimes you have to just kind of play the hand you’re dealt. I know you guys are familiar with sometimes marketing is an afterthought, and in manufacturing companies, which, that’s another you know, Wayne, we could go down. I’ve got some some thoughts there, but yeah, a lot of times it’s one person, one marketer who’s wearing 100 hats. It might be one, you know, one VP of marketing, and then maybe a marketing coordinator, and they, they’re going out to trade shows. And so they kind of put things on hold and go, go do that, which, you know, it’s still very much a trade show driven, driven business. And so, yeah, it’s kind. Of like, what’s what’s practical, what’s pragmatic. How can I make their life easier? And how can I help? You know, on websites, we talk a lot about reducing friction. A lot of it’s just about simplifying and getting out of the way, making things clear and easy. I try and think about that in on the human side, in the business side, of like, how can we all help each other a little bit and make life a little bit easier. So, yeah,
Damon Pistulka 20:27
very cool. Yeah.
Curt Anderson 20:29
So, you know, let’s and let’s go there you mentioned. You know, hey, we might talk a little bit more about marketing. Just, why don’t you go ahead and let’s segue right into
Judd Lyon 20:36
that, sure. Yeah. So, one of the things that’s a challenge in manufacturing is that. So I study a lot of B to B, kind of SaaS, kind of high tech, and I try and kind of my, I mean, I’m giving away my whole strategy here is I basically study that and try and pluck the best ideas I can find from there, and then I try and apply it in the manufacturing world, because they tend to be hyper competitive. It’s fairly, you know, they’re trying to get little small edges on the on the technology side and the and the marketing and the apps and the, you know, automation, all that, all those sorts of things. But, and they invest heavily in marketing. So it’s not uncommon to invest, you know, 10% of your revenue into marketing. I don’t know if that’s a current benchmark. You know, things are topsy turvy in the AI world, but like, they spend a lot on marketing, they really value marketing. Yeah, manufacturing depend, depends on the company, and it’s better than it better than it was several years ago. For sure, strides have been made, but a lot of times they don’t invest in marketing. They think, we’ll just do a lot of sales, we’ll do some trade shows, and then, you know, websites, video, it’s kind of like a little bit of an afterthought. So there’s a lot of companies that are that are kind of under investing in marketing. Now, this sounds self serving, because I’m, you know, work with marketers. And you know, this is my world, but I’m sure you see it that, you know, there’s a lot of very overworked and kind of underpaid marketing folks that are kind of like fending for themselves a little bit at some of these and they’re frustrated and they’re tired, and so I’m always happy, and I love to come in and just focus on, let’s get some quick let’s get some quick wins. Let’s get on the scoreboard here, and let’s focus on what we can do. Let’s, let’s not worry about, you know, it’s easy to recommend hiring more people. It’s easier to recommend, oh, you need to upgrade all your technology. That’s not the real world. The real world is, let’s, let’s play the hand we’re dealt. And so, yeah, I think, I think it’s something that you know, marketing is about understanding your your your customers, and their pain points and where they are, and that in that journey. And it works hand in hand. It really, it really lays the groundwork for sales to take place. And so I think it’s a little short sighted to under invest or to neglect your marketing. So I don’t know what you guys experience when you when you talk to people, but I you know maybe, maybe I’ve just worked with a lot of overwhelmed, overwhelmed marketers in manufacturing, no.
Damon Pistulka 23:16
And you know that the thing that’s really happening, too, and we say it all the time is the younger and we’re saying they’re not even that young right now. You know, people in their 30s right now grew up completely digital, high speed on all the time. They want to be able to find that information. They don’t want to talk to a salesperson until they’ve sufficiently researched a whole bunch about you to go, I think they’re the one, not they’re the three. One of the three, they’re the one. And if you’re not, as you said earlier, supplying that information and giving it to them in the way they want that, they go right on to the next person. I mean, this, these digital buyers don’t go, oh, I guess I gotta call a salesperson. They’re just going to go down the road and do some more searching until they find another company that can get close to what they need, 100% right?
Judd Lyon 24:13
That’s, that’s exactly what I’m seeing, and that’s what, that’s what I hear. I mean, we’ve all like you mentioned, those digital natives have grown up ordering stuff on Amazon, yeah, and, you know, it’s there the next day, and there’s no friction. You click a button and it’s, you know, whoa, what did I just buy? And so, yeah, I’m seeing a lot of that. I’m very focused right now. That’s a hot, hot topic is kind of sales enablement. How do you give people the tools and resources? Can you give them calculators so they can, you know, figure out their ROI, you know, configure price quote tools, all those sorts of things that help them buy in the way that they’re comfortable with and the way they want to buy, not this kind of top down approach of first, first they’re going to, you know, that. Clean funnel of click, then convert. And, you know, these stages of funnel that’s been just turned on its ear. And it’s all sorts of, it’s, it’s so I had a trade show, then I saw you on a LinkedIn live stream, and then I saw you, then I got an email from you one time, and then I went on your website and use the calculator and whatever. You know, it’s a multi touch and attribution is a bit of a nightmare. People still try and solve it the best they can, but it’s like, you’re totally right. People want they’re not going to, they’re not going to patiently wait, and they’re not going to get on a phone call with six different people. They’re not going to get on multiple calls. One of the things, one of the things I really, you know, see and believe, is and it’s hard I follow. You know, I have to work on this as well as we all assume that other people are more interested in our company and our brand or in our products and more invested in it. You know, we’re living that story. But yeah, they care about themselves. They care about their problem, that they’re Yeah, and so you have to frame it that way. That’s probably the number one thing I see, yeah, is that you’ve got to frame it on their terms and their problems and their solutions. They don’t. They don’t really care, you know, they do, but only to an extent of, yeah, yeah, you know how long you’ve been in business, or how you stack up against the you know, or if you have some proprietary language or slang that you use
Damon Pistulka 26:20
like they don’t, you don’t want it.
Judd Lyon 26:22
You use the voice of the customer,
Curt Anderson 26:24
the customer, man, that’s a drop the mic moment, right there. So Judd, you’re throwing out tons and tons of value here. And maybe cover this on, hopefully I’m not putting you on the spot. Our manufacturing friend out there. Maybe, you know, let’s just say, you know, God, bought some, you know, their website looks like, you know, little bit dated, maybe 1015, years ago. And they’re like, Man, I’m just, I’m really, I’m enjoying what Judd is saying. I just don’t know where to start. What do you say to that manufacturer that just, you know, they they’re behind the curve. They’re like, hey, my bad. I let this slip. Was not a priority. But guess, you know, I lost a big customer, or the world has changed. The buyers are getting younger. What can you give us, like, a little one on one? Or, like, how can you hold their hand and, like, bring you, know, meet them where they are, give them, like, some basic,
Judd Lyon 27:11
yeah, a few, a few. That’s a great question. I I have kind of a few guiding principles that I think are, when I get overwhelmed, that I kind of revert to. And one is when there’s too many things, kind of, you know, there’s, there’s this overwhelm from all these AI conversation, yeah, there’s AI we haven’t even got, you know. So, yeah, I think one thing, it, one thing I would start with is take a deep breath, simplify. And when you’re in doubt, keep it human. So focus on, if you focus on, on the people in the process of how information needs to flow. And then, not only information, eventually money. I think a lot about those kind of data and money flows. And so one thing that’s a that’s a concrete first step is to, if you haven’t document who you’re targeting in terms of your in terms of your customers or your prospects. So I think, I think everything, when I study, you know, when I learned from some of these super smart B to B marketers, you know, you guys probably aren’t surprised, and but it surprised me a little bit how obsessed they are with understanding their their customers, and I think, I think documenting that, and then figuring out how to map that, I think, to your messaging. I think messaging is the number one thing for your for your website, in terms of just being clear, and clarity comes from conversations. So have conversations with I stole that from someone. I can’t remember who I heard that from, but it’s really stuck with me over over time, which is, you need, you probably need to be having more conversations. And so talk to your sales team. They are, they are a goldmine of data because they’re out there on the front lines, handling objections every day, and they know the language their customers, and they also sense when there’s a shift in the market, because they’ve got real, almost real time data because they’re out there. So talk to your sales team, talk to your you know, talk to your CFO, or talk to your financial people, but just have conversations, simplify, and then try and come up with a profile of who is your ideal buyer, or who is it that’s going to visit your website. And then, just to kind of a simple process, map, you know, if you’re, if you’re, you know, I’m a, you know, I still do a lot of pen and paper notes. I use note taking tools, yeah, yeah, cheers.
Curt Anderson 29:46
I got like, a full page of notes just, yeah, cheers, we should all tap, you know, tap
Judd Lyon 29:51
notebooks here, whatever process works. The process isn’t as you know, the instrument you use, you know, if you like to get on a whiteboard and a boardroom. Somewhere like it doesn’t matter. It’s the it’s the planning that in the thought process of just map out what that what those journeys and those touch points might look like. I think that’s a good foundation, if you can, if you really laser focus on who you’re trying to serve. Some of those downstream technology decisions and some of those things, they don’t answer themselves, but they’ll put you on the right track. Yeah, and, and you can afford to get some of those things wrong. If you get your messaging wrong or who you’re targeting wrong, you could have the greatest technology on Earth, and it’s not going to matter, right, right? All right, yeah, dude.
Curt Anderson 30:37
Man, Damon, how about a little round of applause right there on that one? Man, so let’s, I want to recap real quick. And so Judd, in no particular order, I was just taking notes. I’ve got number one, take a deep breath, right? Just take a deep breath. You’re not behind. Just take a deep breath. And, you know, simplify. I thought this number two was maybe one of the most powerful things I’ve we’ve had on here for a while. Keep it human man. What a human right? Who are you targeting? Map the process clarity. Have more conversations. And then I just, I jotted down, you know, laser focus on who you serve. So again, so for our manufacturing friends out there, like, hey, gee, I feel a little bit behind. I’m just kind of getting started, or I’m going to go through a whole new makeover on my website. First, foremost, give Judd a call. Secondly, you know, take these tips right here, because these are great, Judd. Let’s look here for a second. Are there again, you and I didn’t do a ton of prep, so I’m kind of throwing a little curveballs at you right now. Are there a couple common mistakes that you see frequently that maybe you could call out right now. I’ll give you a second to kind of like, process that question. Oh, yeah, no. Things where you’re like, our friends out there could be like, you know, and it’s not to like, point the finger, be guilty culprit of this. Just like, are there a couple mistakes that you commonly see?
Judd Lyon 31:57
Yeah, absolutely no. This is, this is all in in the spirit of improvement and being constructive. And that’s, that’s why the word, when I evaluate sites, I’m not a big fan of the word roast for some reason, because I have those, like, Comedy Central roasts where they just, like, really skewer something. Like, you know, somebody put we’re all doing the best we can. So, like, this is all in the spirit of, like, how do we all get better? I have things I can, you know, improve on my site, like, you know. So, yeah, a couple common mistakes. I just did a study of 159 Packaging Machinery websites earlier this year. So I documented, I recorded a ton of video of me just going through site after site. The number one thing we already actually touched on, which is, don’t have it be a company first framing, have it be your customer, your buyer, your prospect, frame it in their terms. So that’s, that’s the biggest thing. That’s if you, if you get that that right, you’re in you’re in good shape. Someone described that to me as your website is not a portal to look into. It’s a mirror. They should see their problems. They should see. They should look at that and say, Yes, I’m in the right place, yeah. And yes, these people can help me. They’ve helped people like me before. And this is, this is my world. Those are my problems. I need to get in touch with them, versus the we’ve been in business for 46 years. And yeah, machines that can do 120,000 you know, widgets per second, and, you know, yada yada, yeah. So that’s, yeah, that’s number one, I would say.
Curt Anderson 33:26
So hey, Judd, real quick. I just, I want folks again, like, if you’re just joining us, please, please connect with Judd on LinkedIn. And Judd, I caught this article earlier. So again, if you go to judge profile, go down to his featured section, and when you’re talking about this article right here, right? Yeah, correct, yep. And this was a great piece right here. So again, hey, I’m going to subscribe right now. But, you know, check out this article right here from Judd. And so I just want to point that out.
Judd Lyon 33:53
No, thank you. Yeah, there’s, there’s a number of mistakes on there. Another, another easy one is just trying to do too much sites that are every page should kind of have a job. Don’t have it. It’s a very common one. And this, this is very common amongst engineering types. So it’s very obvious when you see a site that was led by kind of like a highly technical person, is, let’s list everything. Let’s list every spec on this machine. Let’s list every customer we’ve ever had. Let’s list every accomplishment. Let’s list every single thing, and we’ll just, we’ll just give them like this. This will be just a tour, tour of divorce, of, you know, 1000 things. And you think you’re giving more, but you’re overwhelming. People. They get, they get analysis paralysis. They it feels noisy. It feels like, you know, there’s, there’s 18,000 things going on. What do you want me to do? What should I focus on? You know, there’s the classic. It’s an absolutely canonical book in the field of user experience by Steve Krogh called, don’t
34:57
make me think. Don’t make.
Judd Lyon 35:00
Me think, yeah, it came out like, 20 something years ago. I’m sure it still holds up. You know, the websites are probably hilarious to look back at. You know, whatever we were doing in 2002 or whatever. But I mean that it’s right there in the title. It’s like, reduce friction, reduce cognitive load. And there are techniques, you know, this may sound a little contradictory to what we’re talking about earlier, and providing all the different ways people might want, but there are techniques to let that kind of unveil itself, or progressively show them that they can indicate and take that path, but trying to hit everybody with everything at once. It’s a very common mistake, and it’s it’s it, just it confuses people.
Damon Pistulka 35:37
Yeah, yeah, yep, and everybody wants to do it, like you said. You go into a manufacturer that does 17 different things. They want to put all 17 on their homepage. They want everybody to do in a description of each and all this stuff, and go, Okay, what do you really do? And they go, these. These three are our main ones. I said, Well, maybe we should start there. You can have them all 17 someplace else. But, you know, to really give. And I believe Kurt didn’t you put something out about the in the newsletter this week. You have eight seconds or something like that on the website. It’s just like, super quick. They got to be able to know what you do. Is it something that I want to learn more about? And what’s my next step? And it’s just like, bing, bing, boom. It’s got to go that fast. Otherwise they’re going they’re going on to somebody else.
Judd Lyon 36:25
Yeah, the data backs this up. One thing that’s very common on websites that kind of conversion data does not support are these kind of, like, prolonged slideshows where, yeah, you’re waiting, like, we’re not going to wait 10 seconds for the next slide. And a lot of times that’s multiple, larger companies, it’s different departments who couldn’t agree on what should be on the page. So it’s like a bit of a compromise that, like, this group got this, this group got this, but no one’s, you know, the idea that we’re sitting there passively and waiting for eight slides to go by, not, that’s not how it works. Yeah, it’s, it’s, am I in the right place. That’s a, you know, second or two, yeah, can they help people like me? Yeah, yes or no. And then yeah, that third one you You nailed it. What? What action can I take? What step do I do next? Do I Do I click this? Do I fill a lead gen form out? Do I is there live chat? Like, what is it? And a lot of times you’ll see there’s seven calls to action. It’s like, which one do you want me to do?
Curt Anderson 37:24
Yeah, yeah. It’s, man, I tell you it, it’s so challenging, right? I mean, it’s, you sit back, you’re like, you know, I think you know, it’s, you know, it’s like drawing art, you know, it’s like, you’re trying to create a masterpiece. And, you know, a week goes by or month goes by, and you’re like, you know, you think you had it nailed. And then you’re like, What was I thinking a month ago? Like, you know, like, it, boy, you could drive yourself crazy with it, right? Yeah, yeah.
Damon Pistulka 37:52
And that’s, that’s the other thing. I think you bring up a good point there. And I’m sure Judd, you know, as that now, yeah, you used to be you could build a website. You know, go 10 years ago, 15 years ago, you could build a website, and it might. It could stay static for a number of years, make sure it’s not dying. Now it’s like you got to be doing, just like Kurt said, You’re you’re re looking at the way things are talking. Re updating imagery, keeping keeping more just more current all the time with these things is and it’s it is not optional. It is required, almost, if you want to keep people engaged and keep things moving.
Judd Lyon 38:32
Yeah, absolutely. I think that’s another tip. If I can squeeze a third in here, it’s okay to remove stuff from your website, guys, if, if it’s much better, because you go to a lot of sites, and it’s like, we need to blog, we need to write articles, and then you go look, and then they’re timestamped, you know, 2019 or 22 that’s hurting you more than just taking them down and saying, You know what, we don’t have the resources or the interest or the bandwidth, or we didn’t get any traction with those. It’s okay to prune, prune your site. It’s okay to bring things down. And the flip side to that, Damon, to your point about keeping things current. You know, we mentioned earlier that in manufacturing, at least in the sectors that I’m most familiar with, trade shows are a huge deal. And so there’s always a new event, a new trade show, a new demo, a new Yeah. And so, you know, you go to some of these sites that are doing great the sites themselves aren’t doing great numbers, but the companies are established companies, and should probably know better, and they’ve got the show from last summer in their in their banner.
Damon Pistulka 39:37
I just looked at one yesterday that had that. It’s 25 it’s like, why is that still there?
Judd Lyon 39:44
Yeah, it makes you think. It gives you pause. It makes you you know that that don’t make me think, like it’s almost a little bit of a pattern interrupter. We’re like, oh, this, what’s this show? And you’re like, oh, hack Expo, 2024, we’re in 2026, what’s going on here? Like it’s a.
Curt Anderson 40:00
Dude, you’re hysterical. All right. Judd, I know you’re super busy. You’re helping all sorts of manufacturers with their websites all over the place. We’ll start winding down. I We could not complete this conversation without saying those two letters a and I so talk a little bit about for our friends out there, manufacturers out there again, if they feel a little bit behind the curve, or they’re trying to freshen up their website. What does AI? What? What’s your mind there?
Judd Lyon 40:26
Yeah, a couple quick thoughts on AI. So one, I’m very bullish and optimistic. It is powerful, transformative technology. But as far as that feeling that overwhelm or just like the speed of things, there’s unprecedented, unprecedented amounts of capital being spent on promoting and hyping this technology. And so there’s just constant we’re being bombarded with advertising, with new startups, with new tools, with new you know, and there’s nobody can keep up with all of it. Nobody should even try. And so that feeling of overwhelm or a FOMO, just pause, relax. It’s going to be fine. They, you know. So just, we can start there, but yeah, in terms of the way it can help you on your website. I, you know, I’ve adopted, I was an early adopter in the beta of a tool called Claude code from anthropic this changed the way I work. I mean, it’s really powerful, you know, I just laugh at some of the stuff that we can do now that takes three hours now that used to take me, no joke, 30. And it wasn’t like I could work 30 hours straight. That was 30 hours over, you know, three weeks type of thing. And so, yeah, it’s amazing. But in terms of, I’m a big, you know, when I said simplify earlier, I’m a big back to basics person. And so the basics are, the fundamentals of AI are, I’m also a big RTFM guy, which is read the bleeping manual. So get back to basics. Anthropic has wonderful documentation. Open. AI has good documentation. Gemini on the, on the, on the Google side. It’s worth it. Just spend an afternoon, spend an hour and go look at the documentation and just learn the fundamentals of what a large language model is. You don’t have to get in the weeds in the computer science. I’m just talking about, like, practical everyday stuff, about how to write prompts, and, you know, how to generate an image, like those sorts of like building block tasks. And then as all these tools and all this turbulence, you know, happens over the next few years, those solid basics, those fundamentals, the tools change, but the principles really don’t change that often. And so I think, I think just committing to be a, you know, to a little bit of self education and just kind of calming down and just saying, all right, let me just learn that. Learn the fundamentals, and then, you know, use them to edit your edit some of your copy, but don’t outsource your thinking to these tools. You know, keep it human.
Curt Anderson 43:07
Yeah, drop the mic. Don’t outsource your thinking, Man, Man, I tell you, dude, this was a master class. Damon thoughts, takeaways, what do you what stuck out to you today?
Damon Pistulka 43:18
It’s just great to talk with you, Judd, and learn from someone who’s really making a difference with these manufacturers and and just their digital presence, right? Because there’s when you look at a lot of manufacturers websites, just they’re so underwhelming, and then you visit these places and you go, this is amazing, yeah, absolutely amazing what they do. And it’s great that you’re helping people really show their true selves to the world.
Judd Lyon 43:43
Oh, I appreciate that, and I think I can speak for a lot of people in your guys’s audience. I know you’ve got, you got a lot of fans and kind of folks that keep up with you guys, but your enthusiasm for manufacturing and your consistency to be out here, kind of beating that drum I know it, you know, has made an impression on me, and I know it resonates with a lot of other people. So I just, you know, wanted to thank you guys for the chance to come on here and look forward to following, you know, future conversations.
Curt Anderson 44:13
Oh, thank you. Judd, man, I appreciate that too. So I’ve got two questions that we’re going to close out with. So, man, again, shout out to Dave, what a great role model your father was, is, you know, integrity and what he brought to you. Man, what a great session this was. Yeah, here’s my question. Judd, best business advice you’re an entrepreneur. Through and through, what’s the best business advice that you either wish somebody shared with you earlier, or that you’d like to pass along to a young person out there just starting out?
Judd Lyon 44:46
Yeah, this, this one will seem a little silly, but the more I’ve thought about it, the older I’ve gotten. I’m like, wow, I heard my dad, of all people, who was not an entrepreneur, but he blurted this out, which is. Buy low, sell high, collect early, pay late. And it’s, it’s really boils it down to you need margins. In any sort of business, I don’t care what you’re doing, you need to, you know, you need a profit margin or you’re going to be done. And the second thing, which I learned some tough lessons early on, sometimes I still have to learn these lessons years later, which is that second part. Of course, you shouldn’t be paying late, but like, cash flow, yeah, yeah. Just because you have revenue doesn’t mean you’re doing great. And so that very compact, like, kind of jokey, almost, I don’t know, it’s not a poem. I don’t know what you would call that thing, proverb, some something. Yeah, that thing kind of, you know you need, you need margins, and you need cash flow, and if you’ve got those, then solve some of the other
Damon Pistulka 45:44
problems. Yes, yes, yeah.
Curt Anderson 45:47
Great advice. Great advice. Drop the mic. I, you know what? I’ve, you know, I’ve heard the Buy low, sell high. I’ve never heard the Collect early, pay late. That is absolutely brilliant. Kudos to your dad. And you know, in a and like you just said, it’s, getting the margins in cash flow. Margins cash flow. If you don’t have those two things, you’re just, unfortunately, you’re not in business. So, all right, phenomenal. Judd, one last question for you. You mentioned you were JUCO basketball guy, right? Did I hear that correctly? Ever were you a baseball fan by any chance?
Judd Lyon 46:17
Little bit? I used to be more so than now. I’m out of it nowadays. But yes, I grew up playing baseball, and
Curt Anderson 46:24
you mentioned, you mentioned McGuire in the bash brothers, you know, so Oakland. So I have a little baseball question for you. Little baseball question. You ready? You sitting down? Yeah, I’m ready. All right, let’s do
Damon Pistulka 46:33
this. Damon, you ready? Yep. All right,
Curt Anderson 46:37
the Oakland A’s are playing the dread Well, are they Oakland anymore? Are they
Damon Pistulka 46:40
moving out of Oakland? Where they move? They’re moving, yeah. They’re going to be the Las Vegas.
Curt Anderson 46:44
Yeah. So I so the A’s are playing the dreaded, hated who do they hate the most? Let’s say the Yankees. They just hate the Yankees, right? So the Oakland A’s are playing the Yankees. It’s a bottom of the ninth tie score. Okay, there’s a guy on second base. You with me? Judd, I’m following bottom of the ninth. Two outs. Guy in second base. The manager of the A’s turns down the bench. He says, Hey, Judd, grab your helmet, grab your bat, get up there and hit in the winning run. We got to get out of here, right? You grab your helmet, you grab your bat. You’re walking up to the plate to hit in the winning run for the A’s to beat the dreaded Yankees on your way to the plate. What’s your walk up song,
Judd Lyon 47:30
oh my gosh. Watch my my walk up sign, what’s your walk up song? Oh my walk up song, gotcha. Gotcha, gotcha.
Speaker 1 47:39
You You
Judd Lyon 47:44
know what I would I would probably play. I’d probably play tear the club up by three, six mafia. But I think it would, I think it would probably be, I think the profession. Let’s just say we’ll play the beat. We’ll just play the beat because the lyrics were probably not going to lyrics aren’t
Speaker 1 48:02
going to fall harder. It’s going to go the lyrics aren’t going to work with the beat, with a beat, alright? Awesome.
Curt Anderson 48:07
Great answer, dude. So we got you on that one, so yeah. Judd, as we close out, first and foremost, a heartfelt thank you. I know how busy you are. We don’t take that for granted. Take that lightly. Thank you for sharing your time, your energy, your passion, your expertise today. Just a huge, huge, heartfelt appreciation to you. How about a big round of applause for Judd joining us here today. Everybody out there, if you’re catching us live, you’re catching us down the road, do yourself a favor. Connect with Judd. He’s putting out some great posts on LinkedIn. Guys integrity. He’s fun, great family man. He has all sorts of wonderful information. Damon, anything that you want to share as we close out?
Damon Pistulka 48:44
Nah, just thanks for being here today, Judd, it was a lot of fun. A lot of fun talking with you.
Judd Lyon 48:49
Yeah, likewise guys, I really appreciate the opportunity to be on here and look forward to following you guys on your future combos.
Curt Anderson 48:56
Well, thank you, Judd. And again, if you guys have any questions on websites, Judd, is your guy to reach out to. And hey, as we close out for the weekend, and hey, we’re losing an hour this weekend. Damon, I don’t know we’re going to find that hour, but we’re sneaking we’re jumping out ahead. We’re springing ahead for an hour. But as you close out, do all of us a favor, go out and be someone’s inspiration, just like our dear friend Judd was for us today, and you too will make the world a better place? So guys, we will catch you next week. Thank you. God bless Damon. Close us out. My friend Judd, hang out with us for one minute.
Damon Pistulka 49:27
All right, thanks everyone for being here. We could see you out there listening. We had a comment in here today, earlier. Thank you so much for dropping the comment. We will be back again, and as Kurt says, go out and be awesome this weekend. Thanks everyone you.
