people, sales, building a sales team, salespeople, clients, utah, business, behaviors, moved, talking, years, learned, company, training, jason, sandler, absolutely, jim rohn, realized, family, thinking
Damon Pistulka, Jason Caywood
Damon Pistulka 00:15
All right, everyone. Thanks for coming back. Once again, the faces of business. I just had to put a little bit of AC DC on there for Jason, we were talking about music before we got in here. And this is the one he suggested. And I think he made a very wise choice today. So thanks for being here today with us, Jason.
Jason Caywood 00:36
Hey, thanks for having me. I’m looking forward to this awesome opportunity. Yeah, yeah. Well,
Damon Pistulka 00:41
you know, like that, like the show name says, We rebranded to this year after we realized that it might be a little more fun. You know, you’re obviously in business. And I think it’s gonna be fun for us to learn more about you, how you’re helping people, and then just some of the cool stuff, cool stuff you’re doing. Because, man, if there’s something that that I realized, by talking to people like us, there’s so many good people, helping others get better in business and really realize their dreams?
Jason Caywood 01:11
Absolutely, I’m with you. It’s um, you know, as we get older, and we hear this, but you get older, it gets much more important to focus on serving others, right? out of the gate, it’s all about you, and what I want and where I want to get and all this stuff, but that stuff falls flat pretty quickly. So I’ve been amazed, especially in the last year, there’s been amazing things that have taken place in the business community seeing others, you know, go out there serve, do what they can to help. Yes, sir. Everybody went through.
Damon Pistulka 01:42
Yeah, yeah, you know, this, it is something about 2020 was like, and a lot of it. I mean, since backup, there’s the COVID, all that stuff is, sucks, just plain sucks. All of it is sucks. And it’s a, it’s a thing, but when you talk about the business community, and you talk about some of the things you see out there, and you talk about how people are really reaching out and helping people and things like you know, we’ve met virtually, and through these kinds of things, where people are really getting to know each other.
That’s awesome. It’s something we would have never done. Because we’re too frickin busy running around doing our thing and traveling and vacation or whatever it is that we were doing, taking up those time, or even the kind of things that gave time with our families. I know you’ve got a family and and I really, really think that there. While there was a lot of IQ, there was a lot of good.
Jason Caywood 02:36
Oh, 100%, again, lost jobs, people that lost their lives. And, of course, that goes without saying that we would change that if we could live from that. on the business side. I saw a lot of pluses. I wouldn’t change last year for anything. And it was my first year in business. Keep in mind and a lot of people out there, you know, struggled and it hurt, but they learned a lot. Yeah, you know, things were advanced that might have taken another five or 10 years. had last year not happened. Yes. Yeah. A lot. A lot of positives.
Damon Pistulka 03:09
Yeah. Yeah. Well, tell us a little bit about your background. Jason. So you’re in Utah now. And Have you always been there? you traveled around? what’s what’s that been?
Jason Caywood 03:21
Like? For you? Sure. No, appreciate the question. Yeah, born and raised in Utah. You know, most My family is, is, you know, been here for a long time, met my bride went to the University of Utah met her up there. And after I graduated, we actually moved out of state and went to San Francisco. And we had kind of an immature mindset that we were never going to come back. Yeah, we’re out of Utah. We’re never coming back, all that good stuff. But moved to San Francisco. Loved it. My aunt and uncle had been there for a handful of years.
So traveled there quite a bit. But we love being in San Francisco had a great time there. But we wanted to start a family. And we had a goal of you know, my wife being able to stay home. And that was not possible in San Francisco. So then we moved to Chicago, change companies got to Chicago, that was my first sales job was in healthcare. I look back and laugh at some of those early days in sales and some of the things I did, but I fell in love with it. I love sales. That company then moved me to Indianapolis, and they had me run an office there.
So I was in Napoles for a while, then joined another company that took us to Charlotte. So by the time we got to North Carolina, that was our fourth out of state move in three years. Yeah. Well, at that point, I realized my wife was committed, right. She was in it for the long haul. But, you know, had a great time in North Carolina, loved it back there. But by that point, we had two kids and thought you know what, we do want to get back. So thankfully, the company I was with moved us back to Utah to open up a territory out here. And we’ve been back. It’ll be nice. Yours in February, we’ve been back.
Damon Pistulka 05:03
Wow. That’s cool. Well, I, I think one of the perspectives you got, which is interesting because I’ve moved, I’ve lived this I grew up in the Midwest, I live in the southeast, and I live out here in Seattle. But the perspective you get from moving cross country like that, and then just like you did, moving from Chicago to Andy to Charlotte. Wow, the the differences in the kinds of people you meet, and just the just the vibe and the different things that you get is is really incredible.
Jason Caywood 05:32
Well, and to hit on that, honestly, that was two of the biggest lessons we learned moving everywhere. And yeah, different cultures and making moves and all this. But two of the biggest lessons were number one, there’s quirky stuff everywhere. Yes. And number two, you get what you focus on. We have been back home in Utah, like I said, almost nine years, and we love it.
We’re happy to be back. We love the outdoors, love being around family. It’s a great spot. But like I said, when we left, we have more of an immature mindset, as well. Yeah, I mean, moving around. If people have that opportunity, they should jump on it. Because it’s just you know, you can’t experience it any other way.
Damon Pistulka 06:12
Yeah, yeah. I think about that myself to a that there are challenges in it. No doubt, but but being able to experience those different parts of the country and and you know, I can, those those are great places you live to because I think of Michael Chicago. Man, Chicago is fun downtown, and you got rangeley and you’ve got some other stuff. And then you go to Indy, and you go the Indy 500. I mean, come on. It is the it is.
And then you go to Charlotte, and you go North Carolina, and you go Myrtle Beach and some of the other stuff in North Carolina and the barbecue, North Carolina barbecue and one of the better varieties in the United States. And and then back to Salt Lake, you know, salt, or in Utah, and it’s beautiful air. Yep. You really had some great, great experiences, I’m
Jason Caywood 06:58
sure. Absolutely. And yeah, I mean, honestly, if we could have recruited our families to come to North Carolina, we probably would have stayed. I loved being in the south. At that time, my territory was always North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, but sometimes including Virginia, Georgia, parts of Florida. So I got to go all around. And it was it was an awesome experience.
But like you said, being back here, we love it. Utah really is a great space to talk about business. I mean, our economy here really has done pretty well, even all throughout last year. There’s so many tech companies and our population just continues to grow, which is very helpful. So I we love it being backyard. It’s Utah’s a great spot.
Damon Pistulka 07:39
Yeah. Yeah. So it is. And that is interesting about that, because we don’t feel Yes, the restaurants. I mean, I think everybody’s you guys didn’t shut down in Utah as much as we have in Washington and some other places, of course, but but the restaurants have all the hit. But other than that, you know, if we wouldn’t have had up here, the aerospace, you know, not delivering planes for for a while, obviously hurt the economy up here.
But I think outside of that, by and large, it did pretty well here, not like salt lake because I’m really amazed at Utah and the amount of tech and software companies. I mean, when you look at some of the people we know in in things like SEO and HubSpot implementation and some other things that that pay per click marketing and things like that. I never even knew that that was the history of it in Utah, like there.
Jason Caywood 08:35
Well, yeah. And I have to admit, you know, when we first moved back, well, up until the end of 2019, my old, my old company, I traveled 4045 4045 times a year. So I wasn’t I wasn’t doing anything here. So when I started my business, that was one of my first you know, things to do was dive in and get to know people and get involved in the community.
And it sounds kind of silly, because I’m from here, and I’ve been home for a while, but it’s almost as if I had just gotten here a little over a year ago, just uncovering everything meeting awesome people, obviously, you know, meeting folks like yourself, and really getting an idea of what’s going on here. So it’s it’s gotten even more exciting as I’ve had, you know, been able to dive in that way.
Damon Pistulka 09:19
Well, you know, you say that, and it rings true with a lot of people, I think, because when I was running companies, and I’ve been in the Seattle area now for 20 years, right? So 20 plus years now, I didn’t know this yet the people in the Seattle area, because when you’re in a company and you’re running a company like you are you’re either traveling I traveled a fair amount to or you’re in that business working in that business running the business. You don’t get out like you do when you’re when you’re doing, you know, consulting work or doing the things like you’re doing or covering a large sales territory.
Jason Caywood 09:53
Absolutely, yeah, there’s, you can just kind of get your own tunnel vision and here’s what I got to do. Here’s where I got to be and that’s it. Yeah, it’s so important to just get out there and see what’s going on. Very cool. Very cool.
Damon Pistulka 10:05
So you’ve got a family in in Utah now, right? Why is that thing?
Jason Caywood 10:11
Absolutely. So we have three kids, we got a 15 year old son who’s a freshman, we’ve got a 13 year old daughter, who is a seventh grader. And our other daughter, she’s almost seven, and she’s in first grade. And we can imagine, you know, they, they keep us plenty busy. But I want to go back to something you said earlier about last year, we’ve always been very family focused and family centered. But we were still busy.
And it was, you know, kids stuff and kid activities, which is great. But man, those first couple months when they just shut everything down all activities, everything. That was unbelievable. That was a blessing. We didn’t know we needed just a night being together, we’d go outside and play basketball, we’d have conversations. Nobody had practice. Nobody had a game. Nobody had to get here or there. And man, that was honestly one of my favorite times of my life is just, you know, having nowhere to be just the five of us.
Damon Pistulka 11:07
Yeah, well, I’ll probably choke up here. But you. I tell people, the same thing I’ve got our kids are 26 and 21. And they were here for three or four months. My son’s a senior in college and our daughter lives in Seattle, but she wanted to come home for a while and exactly right. I say this, I tell my wife this all the time is this is time we will never ever have in our life again, when everything shut down.
And you’ve got that family time, like you said, eating dinner at the dinner table every night. But going out and doing stuff as a family or just going out for a walk or like setting the planets playing catch in the yard, whatever the heck it is. We will never probably have that again. And it’s such a precious thing.
Jason Caywood 11:50
Well, it is and I honestly here’s my my only concern. As things start moving in a better direction with you know, we’ve got the, you know, with COVID and the vaccinations, all that good stuff. That’s all tremendous. I just want people to remember those things from last year. Yes. Why I want people to remember those things and realize we don’t need all this stuff. We don’t need all the the excitement and you know, always being somewhere in this. It’s just really the basics. So I know that it’s forever changed our family and and how ourselves and what we’re willing to do because yeah, it was it was a gift.
Damon Pistulka 12:26
It no doubt. And I agree 150% man because it is it is you just feel closer. And I was telling somebody this the other day, I feel like now I can even in my wife to I mean, you just feel like you can hug them and you love them more, because you have that time that you just never had before. It’s It’s so cool. Yeah. So when we Yeah, I go on to that a long time because like I said, it’s it is a big deal. And it’s really great to hear you say that and hear that that happened for you as well. Because I think that’s that’s just a golden lining in this thing.
Jason Caywood 13:01
Oh, yeah. Well, you know, we were talking earlier before we started that, you know, I just took the last two weeks of the year off and it’s the 14th year in a row that I’ve done that and and it is it is a non negotiable for me. Yeah, take that time off. My kids are out of school. We do stuff as a family kind of reflect on the year I get ready for the next year with goals. But I The reason why I share that is that was within the first year of my new business. Yeah, a lot of business owners think oh my gosh, I’ve got a new business. I got to work 100 hours a week. I’ve got a I can’t take a day off. Are you kidding me? Well, I just want people to know it’s possible.
Yeah, 100% possible when I set up my business and got ready to get going. That was just locked into my brain. Well, the last two weeks of the year I’ll be done. Yeah, I’ll be done. So my year ends you know prior to that and and so it’s just I just want business owners and even if you’re not a business owner, I did it when I was a salesperson when I worked for somebody else. I just had that time and will never go without that because like you said earlier I can’t get that time back I can always make more money I can build another business but I can’t get that time back with my family and so those last two weeks of the year it’s just become non negotiable.
Damon Pistulka 14:12
Yeah, good stuff good stuff and it is important I mean there’s there’s different ways that people do it and and my my wife and I we’ve always she was a salesperson, much like you travel cards territory for for many years and and we’ve always really integrated work in life and now Now we can travel and do what we want and work so so it that makes it a little bit easier. But those times where you’re not working at all are certainly precious.
Jason Caywood 14:44
Yep, absolutely. And by the way, you know I’ve learned this so even even before when I when I was in sales and I take that time off, what I check in a little bit sure what I check email sure all that but it was about Geez, probably six years ago. For the first time, I actually completely disconnected for the full two weeks, I had just become a sales director, my boss could cover for me all that good stuff. And what I realized was, of course, all the family benefits that That goes without saying, there was actually a huge business benefit.
When I was done with that vacation and being fully disconnected, I was so excited to get back to work, because I had all these different ideas, my brain was able to work in a different way, because I wasn’t just thinking about the daily tasks, I was disconnected, let my brain kind of rest for a second, and then all this stuff started popping up. So I would venture to say that even if it’s just for the business benefit, people need to get away they need to disconnect. Yeah, whatever time of year, you know, you want to do it.
Sure. But there is such value on the business side for taking that time away, engaging in other things, let your brain rest a little bit. And then you come back with fresh ideas and a fresh perspective.
Damon Pistulka 15:57
Yeah, that’s for sure. That’s for sure. It is is beneficial. And like you said, before we even got on, you said that you’re ready to see your clients, you’re ready to go on back from the two weeks off. So that’s that is. That’s great. And it also shows it goes towards the passion you have for what you do.
Jason Caywood 16:15
Yeah, no, it’s I love I love sales. First of all, I think sales is the greatest profession in the world, when done properly. Right. We all know that sales has a bad connotation because most salespeople are not good. We’ve all dealt with that terrible, pushy, overbearing salesperson. But when it’s done, right, you’re what you’re really out there doing is you’re out there to serve. You’re out, serve your clients, or serve your potential clients.
And so that’s what I love with all of my clients is my way if I serve them properly, and do what I’m supposed to do, it’s going to make them better sales professionals, better sales managers, all that stuff. And so yeah, I love it. And I love I actually right before this, I was talking to a client of mine, she called me and said, Hey, I’m struggling with something here. You know, can we walk through it? And after the 20 minute conversation, she had a clear head, she had a clear path, and was ready to move forward. And I love that I love that part.
Damon Pistulka 17:17
Yeah, yeah, just helping those people and, and, and quick cuts. And this is what, really as as I rolled into 2020, I had not been uh, you know, I didn’t provide help people like I do now. And like, I just really give, give, give, because I didn’t realize how how good it is, for me and them, because as you’re helping that client, it’s almost like, you get twice as much satisfaction back for it. And it just makes you want to do it more.
Jason Caywood 17:54
Yep. Oh, absolutely. And again, that’s true in life, right? That’s Yeah, you go out and you you’re working at a nonprofit or working at your church, whatever it is, we get that back. And, you know, something I’ve learned, you know, I’ve had a coach through the Tony Robbins organization for years, and they have, you know, different areas of life that you look at, well, one of them, a lot of times the area might be titled, you know, career or job or whatever. But the way they put it was work slash career slash mission.
And that should be a progression, that our goal should be to feel like we’re certain, you know, in our mission within our work, right, that we’re actually out there serving and not just working a job or not just climbing the ladder in a career, but actually, in our mission of what we were meant to do. Yeah, well, I’ve ever since I saw that years ago. I thought no, that’s, that’s where I want to get to and before I started my business, it was a great career. Yeah, really enjoy. It was a great career. Yep. Well, I
Damon Pistulka 18:53
feel like I’m finally actually in a, you know, serving a mission within my work and through my business. That’s awesome. And well articulated man. Because it you described what I found in 2020. And, and it is like, when you find that mission menu. Oh, man, I am here. I mean, it wakes you up in the morning?
Jason Caywood 19:16
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It’s, and it doesn’t mean every bit every day is rainbows. Right. You know, you still have your, your, your obstacles, you still have your issues to deal with. And, you know, I tell people all the time there were there are plenty of days last year, I wanted to curl up in a ball on the corner and you know, suck my thumb and cry, right? And what you remember, hey, what’s this for this? Who’s this? Who benefits by me? continuing to fight through and learn and grow and push? And for me, it starts with my family. Right? That’s the center of everything here for me. And then beyond that, all right. Well, who can I help? And you know, it’s it’s, yeah, it’s just, it’s so much better that way knowing that that’s there.
Damon Pistulka 19:57
Yeah. Yeah. So now j When when you’re doing what you do now and correct me if I’m wrong is you, you? You’re with Sandler Training, and you do use the Sandler Training method to help train salespeople and sales teams. And, and and those things now. And we’ll talk about that a little bit. Because I’ve got a couple of questions about that. But then a couple questions about 2020. And what you what you really saw 2020. So, now there’s a lot of different ways that people train, you know, look at different options for this, right? There’s different options that why do you think what drew you into the Sandler method or the Sandler organization to use that method as your base of your business?
Jason Caywood 20:43
No, great question. And I’ll tell you, so I actually was a client of Sandler Training for 12 years. But I have to tell this story, because I don’t think anything happens by accident. So I moved to North Carolina, and again, it was my second sales role. Second company in sales, and they were fairly new. They were three years old. It was 2007. And my boss was one of the co founders. And so I moved out there and I’m doing all right, you know, getting the ball rolling. But one day, he just says, Hey, have you ever thought about sales training?
And I said, Well, no. But I love to learn. Yeah, let me start working. So I found I looked around Google sales, training, whatever I did, and I found a Dale Carnegie course, I forget what the title was. But it’s an eight week course around. So I sign up for it. And no joke about a month before it was supposed to start. Someone from Dale Carnegie called me and said, Look, the majority of the attendees for that class were from one company, and they’ve had to pull out so we’re going to cancel that class.
So I call my boss back, hey, here’s what happened. I don’t know where else to go any ideas? And he said, Well, I’ve been hearing some stuff on the radio about this company called Sandler Training. Why don’t you check them out? Yeah. Well, it turned out there were two Law Offices right there in Charlotte. I forget I talked about them. I forget what happened with one but the gentleman Jim Dunn, at the other one, we just connected. And so we get together and listen, I didn’t have two nickels to rub together.
I gotta be honest with you and Sandler is you know, trainings. not cheap. Yeah. What, but Jim worked with me. And we figured out, you know, something to make it happen. And and I just dove in. And you know, Sandler, it’s all about ongoing reinforcement training. So unless I was sick or out of town, I was in his office every Friday morning for trading for five years. Wow. And just kept going, going, going. And every time I was there, something else would hit me or it hit me different. I’m learning and trying something different. So I fell in love on that side. Well, I then, you know, move back to Utah.
And before COVID, you know, all this stuff? Well, you know, a month after I moved back, he got cameras and flat screens in his office so he could train virtually when he needed to. Yeah, well, thankfully, I was able to rejoin training from Utah virtually. I then become a sales director with that company managing the western region. And at that point, my company then paid for me to go into the management training. Yeah, well, I was in the management training for six years. So six years on the sales side, six years on the management side, and circled back to the beginning. Had I taken that Dale Carnegie course. You and I are not talking Damon?
Damon Pistulka 23:30
Yeah, yeah, I’m
Jason Caywood 23:31
here right now. I’m doing something different. Yeah. So any right? Get that going? Well, it’s probably a couple years ago, I was looking at my travel. And even though I traveled frequently, it was maybe one or two nights, so not Monday through Friday, but still frequently. Yeah. I look at my son who’s 13. At the time, I’m like, man, he’s gonna be out of our house in five years. Yeah. And water, my oldest daughter shortly behind him. So I simply started thinking, I want to do something different. Yeah, I don’t know what it is yet.
But I want to do something different. Is it a different company? Is it a local company? What does that look like? And I then was signed up to go to Sandler has these sales summits in March in Florida. So in 2018, I went as a client, and it completely just boom, lit the fire starter like that. Maybe this is it. And I’ll be honest with you along the way. I had some thoughts early on, I thought, maybe one day, that might be something to explore. But I go to that summit in March of 18.
And I come home and I tell my wife, I’m like, you know what, I really want to look at this option. So I started asking some questions. And again, we’re thinking maybe it’s way down the road. Well, I’m signed up to go to the summit in March of 19. As a client again, come to find out they were having discovery days at the summit for people looking at the business side of it right looking. So I call my trader Jim and I said, Jim, hey, do you mind if I joined the Discovery days instead of attending the summit, he said, Oh, no, go for it. So I’m there to two days. Now, before I go out, I have a much higher risk tolerance than my wife does.
Yes. But why go out? She says very clearly to me. Don’t you dare sign a thing? Don’t you dare me intelligent, we talk less we got let’s figure this out together. So I go to the discovery days and very smart on her part, right? Yeah. Well, the discovery every break, I’m on the phone with her, Hey, here’s what we talked about, what questions do you have that are that are that have wonderful time out there? Come home, and we sit down as a family. And at that time, you know, My son is 13. My oldest is 11. And our youngest is five, or you know, four and a half. So the four of us we set we talked about, Well, hey, if dad starts this business, what does that look like?
And do you guys want to you know what, you know, would you like dad to be home or not travel as much? We’re having great conversations. And I have to share this with you. So we’re Catholic, but I have to share this because this, this is very powerful for me. So I said to my wife, I said, Look, can we pray the rosary together to decide where do we want to go with all this? And she said, Yeah, but you’re not expecting Nora to do that. Right? which is our four and a half year old? That’s right. I said, No, that’s fine. Yeah, worse, we, the four of us are sitting there in the living room. And we go to start.
And we have you know, when you go upstairs, there’s a little kind of walkway where you can look down in the living room. And our four year old looks down four and a half. And she says, Hey, are you guys praying that necklace? Yeah. And she comes running down? sits in my lap the entire time? Yeah. And right, then I said, this is exactly what we need to be done. Yeah. And so we said, let’s build a timeline. What does that look like? We decided to start in December of 19. And, you know, more, or December six was my last day with my last company, December 8, I’m on a plane to Baltimore for 10 days of training.
And there you go. But, you know, that was a long answer to come back to your original question of why Sandler? It changed my life. Yeah, I lived it as a client. Yeah. Well, I learned what I was able to implement. The people that I met, the mentors that I still have to this day that I met all along the friendships that I created, knowing, learning the system, you know, there’s a lot of great systems out. There’s a lot of great training out there. But I feel like Sandler is the most encompassing, most training out there focuses on technique alone.
And we actually have something called a success triangle where you look at attitudes, behaviors and technique. And as critical as technique is, we think it’s the least important of the three. And so I knew that I live that I understood, no, this Sandler helped me up here. Yeah. And or helped me with my attitude and my beliefs, it helped me with understanding what do I need to do on a regular basis on the behaviors and then of course, techniques, so. So I just, I had a personal proof. And and so once I learned the business side of it, and what a great family it was, and I’ll share some stories on that in a second, when we talked about last year.
Once I saw that, it was just like, there’s no other place I want to be. And, you know, I had a few people when I was telling them what I was thinking about doing. They’d say, Well, why don’t you just start your own thing? You know, you’ve been around enough, why don’t you just start your own consulting business? And I thought, okay, I could probably do that. But there’s no way I was going to come up with the kind of content that stands for it. You know, okay, do I want to start my own burger joint or buy a McDonald’s? You know, and so, yeah, so it’s, you know, here we are 1314 months in and I couldn’t be happier.
Damon Pistulka 28:42
Awesome. That’s, that’s such a great story, too. Because you, you lived it, you saw how much it helped your sales career, both in the sales as a salesperson and as a sales manager. And and now you’re able to, you know, you live it now helping others do that, that same thing. So in your practice, now, are you helping both like people in the sales, individual sales, training and sales management training? Or what do you really help people?
Jason Caywood 29:13
Yeah, great question. So with Sandler sales and sales management is our foundation. Okay. I’m looking at my current client mix. I yeah, I’ve got it all. I have some individuals, that of course, I have a soft spot in my heart for because they’re paying for it out of their own pocket. Yeah, I did. So I love working with individuals that are just saying, You know what, I can do better. I want to grow, I want to become more valuable in the marketplace. I will work with those folks all day long.
Then we do have companies, yes, companies and their teams and all that. And whether they’re in the sales side of things, or in the management side of things, but we’re doing all that but we do have other stuff too. We’ve got you know, programs where we look at an entire organization from top to bottom. Yeah, we got stuff for, you know, customer service, or anybody that talking to customers, but they’re not salespeople. So, you know, we’ve got a lot of different stuff. But yeah, sales and sales management is our foundation.
Damon Pistulka 30:07
Yeah, that’s, that’s cool in your ear. Individuals, I just go back to that, and I wrote it down and you’re talking about it? Because I’ll tell you what, if I read some stuff in the last 30 days, it really, really changed some things for me. And the one thing that I just a quote that sticks out in my head, and I’ll butcher it horribly, here is Dr. Jim Rohn, r h, n.
And he talks about, you know, you can’t become what you want, until you can’t get what you want in your career until you become the person that will attract that or something like that. I’m saying I’m butchering it, like I said, but I think about that, when you hear those individuals that, you know, they are forking out harder and money that could probably go to other things easily, that that would maybe not give them the long term benefit that the training would, and they are going to create a better life for themselves doing it.
Jason Caywood 31:08
No, you’re right. And it’s, you know, so first of all, Jim Rohn is is my all time favorite. I have every minute of his audio. It’s funny, my son, my son has a lawn mowing business, and he can’t drive yet. So I help him about five hours every Saturday and during lawn mowing season. I’m out there with him and and I listened to about 100 hours of Jim Rohn audio every summer. So yeah, I love Jim Rohn. And one of the ways he said what you just said is this. He said his mentor told him now this is back in the you know, 50s right? Yeah, what it said you should have a goal to become a millionaire. And he said, it’s not because of the money but who you will have to become to achieve it. Right.
And you can lose the money, which Jim Rohn did initially, he became a millionaire and then lost it and then built it all back up and beyond. But he held on to everything he learned he held on to who he had become to achieve that. So no, I’m with you. We’ve got to invest in ourselves. I have a quote, when I do my trainings with my classes. Every time I’ve got a quote up there, it says, if you invest in yourself, you make a living, excuse me, if you invest in your job, you make a living. If you invest in yourself, you make a fortune. Yeah, right. And you got it. We’ve got to invest in ourselves. We’ve got to feed into it in a in a whole holistic way.
Damon Pistulka 32:30
Yes, yes. Well said, well said because it is you got to respect the people that are taking that that that leap, you know, working and working, you just know, it’s like, yeah, you need every dollar you make sometimes and to take that that dollar and put it into invest in yourself, it will reap the benefits in the future. Absolutely. So being in sales in 2020.
You know, this this? I mean, for me, I look at it and the massive shift of people going from in person to virtual, whether you’re talking about whatever. How did you how did you adjust the training, not so much that you’re going virtual rather than classrooms? But how did you help people continue developing through that? Or what are some of the things that you saw last year that were just interesting?
Jason Caywood 33:27
Sure. Well, in some ways, not a lot changed, right? And I’ll explain that here in a second. Because, really, we still needed to keep doing the same behaviors. Now granted, the one thing that changed in a lot of ways was you couldn’t be face to face in some places you could some places not so much. But again, I mentioned earlier attitudes, behaviors and techniques. Okay. I asked people this question, and I’ll ask you, Damon, does attitude drive behavior? Or does behavior drive attitude? What do you think?
Damon Pistulka 34:00
I think attitude drives it.
Jason Caywood 34:02
So about 95% of people will say that, and I completely understand. And you’re right, when we feel good, we’re ready to take on the world. Right? When we feel good. It’s like, Hey, I gotta do this, I got to make this many calls, I got to go, whatever. But the problem with that is, we don’t feel good every day. Ah, so it’s that’s why you say it’s critical that we have to know what are the behaviors we have to engage in, and with what frequency to give us the best chance of achieving that outcome we’re shooting for.
And what happens is, when we do those behaviors, even if we start off not feeling great about it, by the end of it, we typically feel much better. And I’ll give you a couple examples. So for anybody out there, that maybe they’ve done a half marathon or a marathon or some sort of race, well, they know what their training program has to be. And I can promise you because I’ve done some of those things. I’ve done some ultras and marathons, stuff like that. It Wasn’t every single day that I would ever I’m like, Yes, I am so excited to go run for four hours, almost, I’m pumped. But I, I knew I had to do it because if I didn’t do it, I would struggle on race day.
However, I can tell you this, every time I went out and did it, when I was done, I felt much better about it. I was much more excited. So real world, I’ll tell you what happened with me. And then I’ll tell you how I’ve helped some of my folks with this. First of all, that first Monday that everything did shut down in in Utah. for about two hours, my head was in the toilet. Now I have some clients at this point. And things were moving. And yes, we did move online. But my head was in the toilet of, Oh, my God, I just started this business. What is this going to do? Is everybody going to shut down? Is anybody going to buy anymore?
Am I going to get any more grants? I really struggle mentally for a couple hours. Well, thankfully, I remembered what we teach what I teach, which is, you’ve got to behave regardless. Right? So what I then did was I just started thinking, Okay, what can I control? What can I do to give back? How can I help this current situation? And I just started brainstorming, okay. And in the end of it, I came up with a couple ideas, I came up with some kind of a free training schedule that I put together, I put together some free training for salespeople that had gotten laid off as a result of COVID. I started reaching out to universities, just to see what was possible and anything.
And by the end of that day, Damon, I felt 100 times better. Not that I had it all figured out. But I at least had some ideas. Yeah. You realize, okay, this is what I can control. And so right then, and there I that just solidified in my brain even more the importance of behaving regardless of how we feel. So now with my clients, that’s something we focus on a ton. You know, here’s, I could ask 100 salespeople, hey, what do you need to do to hit your quota every month? and 85% of them are going to come back and say, Well, my quota is this. And our average deal size is this. So I need to sell X amount of deals. All right. Well, that’s all true. But we got to dig a lot deeper.
Yes. How many sales? How many presentations? Do you need to have to have that many presentations? How many discovery meetings to have that many discovery meetings, how many initial calls and all the way down to the most basic thing, and then that’s what you set your goals to? that manages your behaviors? And so with them, yeah, they maybe it was, you know, face to face droppings, and we had to change their behavior to over the phone? All right, well, maybe they really haven’t made a lot of cold calls. What does that look like? Okay, we’ve got a lot of stuff on that. But that’s where we focused on a lot during that time is again, what can we do?
And then of course, this all started zoom, right, people started at least being able to see each other a little bit more instead of just over the phone. So what’s the best way to go about that? So I’ve seen a lot of companies out there that have continued to grow and do well and expand. And and thankfully, my clients are part of that they’ve, they’ve done a great job, they’ve adapted and, and they’ve realized, Hey, you know, we can’t use COVID as an excuse anymore. You know, first couple months, a lot of people didn’t know what was gonna happen. But after that, we kind of realized why this is what we’re dealing with. Let’s Let’s plow ahead.
Damon Pistulka 38:31
Yeah, now you make it a point because the brainstorming part of that, when you’re in that CF waiting and controlling what you can control because you shouldn’t be somebody hit me hard all the time. And he would just get, oh, just make your guts turn. And then you back it out into Okay, I can’t control any of that other junk, right? I can’t control any of that I can’t do anything about it. Now let’s focus back on what we do and what we can control. And man that does, just like you said, it gives you a if you still are going, Hey, I don’t know where it’s going. But I’m doing these three things that can move it in the right direction. I’m doing everything I can. And and that’s good.
And then when you the other thing that you said in here that I think is just gold that people need to think about, especially in sales, but this applies in a lot of different places, too, is dig down below, like you said, I need to close this many deals. Well, yeah, you do. But what you have to do to do that, and you back through those levels, because I can’t remember I read a book a couple months ago now where they were talking about that. Don’t focus on what you what is the basic thing you need to do to drive the outcome that you need. Don’t focus on the outcome at all because the outcome will will will manifest itself if you’re working on this the right way. Like you said behaviors?
Jason Caywood 40:02
Yeah, well, here’s two things on that. Regarding the behaviors, here’s something I’ve seen a lot in my career. Most sales people don’t know those answers, yes, or just, they’re just kind of flying by the seat of their pants. So the problem with that is, when they’ve got a poor mindset are a poor attitude, which we all have from time to time, they end up doing nothing. Right?
They end up just saying, you know what, I’m just going to call it a day. It’s just not my day to day. So that’s why it’s critical that we have our necessary behaviors, crystal clear, so that on the days, we don’t feel good, and we don’t want to do it, we still know what we have to do. But if we try to decide what we have to do, when we’ve got a poor attitude, it’s so much harder. Now, the other thing I want to add to that, I heard this interview is Nick Saban, alabama football coach. Yeah. being interviewed by Dan Patrick, probably a couple of weeks ago now. And you know, obviously wildly successful coach, and he’s been around a long time.
So Dan, Patrick asked me said, Hey, he said, What’s changed? Over the years with the kids, you’re recruiting? what’s probably been some of the biggest change that you’ve seen. And his answer blew my mind. And I came home and I made my two older kids listen to it right away. But here’s what he said. He said, The biggest thing that he has seen change in the kids that he recruits is expectation. He now has kids that are going to be incoming freshmen, that all they care about is, hey, I want to get 50 catches an X amount of touchdowns my freshman year, and that they’re all focused on the outcome only.
And so what happens, they come in, maybe they don’t earn a starting spot, so they’re not getting the outcome they want. They then get frustrated, they get a bad attitude. And potentially it derails their college career. He said, the best the best athletes that he works with what they do, they focus on the process. Yeah, they focus on the process. It’s getting in the gym every day, it’s eating the right stuff. It’s working their tail off at practice every single day. So to tie it back to our work, they focus on the behaviors.
Yes, no, yes, of course,
Jason Caywood 42:12
they all want to start, they all want to do well, they all want to win a championship. Of course that’s there. But they fallen in love with the process in the grind. And I love when I heard that. I’m just like, Man, that’s what it’s about. And that’s, that’s something we talk about all the time. We’ve got a lot of day to day.
Damon Pistulka 42:31
Yeah, yeah. And you know, when you look at it, there are so many similarities between sports and business. And, and I know people talk about this, but I had the opportunity my son played baseball on at a very high level of competition. And you know, I don’t know, four or so kids off, they’re going to be in the MLB. Or if they’re not already and the club where he is out of a couple years ago, the kid won the shy young. So this they know how to work on the process. And that is all they talked about. They were like, put in the work.
Jason Caywood 43:11
put in the work. Well, absolutely. You know, I was talking to my son. So he, he played as a freshman, I have to brag on him a little bit. He played High School varsity as a receiver this past year as a freshman in high school. We got talking about it as I’m looking, you know, in last year, when he was in eighth grade, he was going to the school before everything shut down at 630 in the morning to go to QB school and learn the playbook. Right?
Well then thing shuts down and it goes to zoo, he’s on zoom, taking notes, all these little things. Then in the summer, or excuse me, in the spring, they were giving out bodyweight workouts because most kids don’t have a gym. Well, we built a gym in our in our garage. So we reached out to the strength coach, hey, what can I do?
Here’s the equipment I’ve got. So the strength coach builds him a workout. He’s working his tail. They finally come back in June, kind of mid June to do workouts outside. Yeah, we thought all this stuff. And it finally hit me one day and I said his name’s Rome. I said, Roman. I said, Do you realize the minutes or the time that you actually spend in games? It’s probably about 5% of the overall time you’ve invested in football. And so if you have to love the grind, yeah, if you don’t love the grind, you’re never going to get to that 5% you’re never going to get to so in sales. Yes, making a big deal is awesome. Closing a sale is an amazing feeling.
But how much of our actual time do we spend doing that? Yes, it’s in the preparation. It’s in the prospecting. It’s all the knows. We get told no way more than we get told. Yes. Yes. Okay. So we have to fall in love with the process. We got to make sure we have the right attitude and mindset to fight through that and keep doing the behaviors over and over and over. And of course you make adjustments along the way and somebody that’s been with Sandler for 25 years. their behaviors are different than mine right now. Right? I get that make adjustments, but it’s just critical that we identify what we’ve got to do. And we just do it day after day after day.
Damon Pistulka 45:11
Yeah, you’re so right. And and it is. And when I I’ll be honest, I didn’t know much. Well, I had sold a lot. But I didn’t. And I wasn’t a salesperson. But But until I met Jeff Graham about five years ago, and and he always talked about that. And it is the first time I really worked with someone that they had broken the sales process down similar to what you’re talking about, and, and the importance of simple things like talking about a sales meeting after it and going through the conversations and replaying that and talking about it.
We spent hours and hours doing that I’m like, man, if people actually take the time to tune in figuring out the process, too, because, you know, it was us selling our consulting stuff and doing what we’re doing selling businesses and but when you get a process, and you understand how a conversation should flow, and a normal thing, and like you said, You’re always serving, you’re trying to figure out what challenges that these these people have? And if what we do meets it, and then but doesn’t make sense to talk further. But just understanding the process?
Because if you don’t you’re just winging it. Yeah. And I go back to the to the sales that I’ve been involved in years before, a lot of it was just winging it. yourself, you know, you make enough calls you get yourself in the right place in the right time. And yeah, it works. And, and those kind of things, but you’re the training that you’re providing these people gives them the fundamentals, you know, it took to get there, like you said, Your son working and playing football. It’s not that he knows how to play football as much as he knows how to get his body, mind his body, right his mind right. And understand the game. So that when he gets to play the game is really good at
Jason Caywood 47:11
100%. It is, you know, you mentioned that there’s no process. Most salespeople are flying by the seat of their pants. Yeah, it’s and and what’s, what’s detrimental is to what you just said, when they actually have some success doing it that way? Because then they think, Oh, well, hey, I’m good. I’m good. Well, yeah, you may have accomplished some stuff, but you’re not reaching your full potential. Yeah, right. And, and, you know, we look at, we call ourselves, we’re an elite Performance Center for businesses. And I like the analogy again, we’ll stick with sports, because my simple brain can understand that.
Yeah, you look at a high school athlete, a college athlete, or a professional athlete, they’re all smart enough to put together a workout. They know enough of, Hey, I should probably eat more of this, but maybe not as much of this stuff. Right? They will that to an extent. But the ones that want to reach their full potential, they engage outside help, they engage physical therapists, and massage therapists and trainers and nutritionists. And they look at them from every single angle. We can’t see ourselves, right? We can’t see what we’re doing all the time.
But if we have somebody helping us, and then telling them how to do it. So now those people are saying, Yeah, you could work out like this. But if you work out like this, you’re going to see gains much faster. If you eat like this, you’re going to have more energy, you’re going to be ready to go. If you get a massage after every workout, this is what’s gonna happen. And that’s how we look at ourselves. But it’s, it’s for business. So yeah, there. There’s definitely successful salespeople out there. But are they have they reached their full potential? And most of the time there are people out there flying by the seat of their pants doing what they’ve always done?
Damon Pistulka 48:53
Yeah. Yeah. It’s a great way to great way to explain it. Because you, you, coaches, and mentors are invaluable.
Jason Caywood 49:04
Yep, absolutely. And I’ll tell you, I’ve, I’ve had a shift, probably the last three or four months, and a lot of it’s come from my colleagues that have been doing this a lot longer. I kind of initially went in thinking, I’ll work with anybody. I want to work with anybody there are let me find the companies that are struggling. And let me let me help them. But no, you know what I’m starting to shift more towards. I want to work with companies that are already in the top 25% of their industry.
Yeah, I work with companies that are already doing well, but their ceiling is much higher, right there. Their growth opportunities are tremendous. And they’ve already got the right mindset of doing things well and putting in the effort. That’s who I love to work with people that they’ve already got this mindset and this drive built into them, but I can just help them hone it a little bit more, a little bit more specifically. And again, I’m not going to turn out a phone call a conversation with any Yeah, but if if people don’t have the mindset and belief system already, boom, okay, we just we can be friends,
boom, there you go, that was a one thing you said that it is just like, Man, you get to
Damon Pistulka 50:10
that point with your business and you are going to be happier, your clients are going to be happier because I just had this conversation with my, my partner, Andrew here. Yesterday morning, it’s like, you know, and we started this last year, the same thing. It’s like, Listen, we are only working with people that are going to put in the work because we had, you can get sales, right in our business in selling a business or doing the consulting work that we do to get them prepared.
A, I could spam people every single day and talk to him about Hey, and find that desperate people and do that. And honestly, years ago, that’s how we started some of our business. But we went back and we said those are the clients that didn’t turn out well, for us. What were the clients that turned out the best for us? What were the clients that we really had the good long term, long term benefits for them and for us, and it was the ones like you said, that they’re putting in the work right alongside of you to use what you’ve given them to really get that much farther?
Jason Caywood 51:13
Yeah, that 1% it’s so true. And, and that’s when it’s, it’s a blast, you know, less fun, because you’re you’re in there pushing together, you’re going after you want to grow, it’s a constant, a constant, just effort to to improve and learn and try things out and, and, you know, fall on your face, and you get back up and try it again. And yeah, or it may be But yeah, I learned pretty quickly that it doesn’t work trying to pull people along, you know, they’re in the right mindset. And listen, I’ve been there. I’ve been there. Before, I wasn’t in the right mindset, I’m not knocking on anybody. If they’re not in the right mindset, you know, what can we do?
And I even learned that back when I was a manager, we were in hell, it was in health care, very specific area of health care. And some people’s mentality was, oh, we want to go out and only hire people that have been in the industry. And they’re rockstars. And none of that of that value there. Don’t get me wrong. But I learned pretty quickly. I would much rather hire somebody that has the drive and the determination and the work ethic. But maybe we have zero experience in our world. We can do that. But I can’t teach somebody how to work hard. What do you how to how to push themselves and do whatever it takes to be successful?
Damon Pistulka 52:26
Yeah. Now do you do assessment? I see that you’ve got the disc background and that kind of thing. So do you help people with with recruiting as well?
Jason Caywood 52:35
Yeah, great question. I appreciate you asking. Absolutely. That’s one of the biggest issues we see with companies when we see. Yep. is they they’ve hired the wrong people to begin with. Yeah, I mean, on a human level, they’re, they’re not well, but they’re not the right fit for that role. So first of all, anytime I start working with somebody, the first thing I do is we assess the team. Because if they don’t have the right people on the team, I’m not gonna charge them for training, right on anybody’s time or money.
But I want to make sure we’re all on the same page from our starting point. But in a world, yes, when I’ve got a client, in the interview process, we are assessing. And this is what I did when I was a client myself, here was my process, I would have three or four steps of, you know, interviewing and kind of narrowing it down to my top two or three finalists. And it was those those are the folks that I would have do the assessments.
And then I would utilize the assessments for the final one or two steps of the overall process to bring on the right person. Yeah, well, I suggest that to my clients, they can do it, you know, whenever they want. But bringing the right people on to begin with is where it all starts. And then if we know we’ve got the right folks, we get them into training, and go on from there. But yeah, great question. We’ve got a few assessments we utilize. Yeah. You know, it’s critical, because real quick, the one of them that is most critical. It looks at ambition, and drive, takes responsibility, different things like that, that you can ask someone in an interview, Hey, tell me about your drive.
Oh, I’m a hard worker. Man. I get up early, and I get after it. What does that mean? Right. But these assessments can actually look and understand where do they fall in those areas. And we can point that out ahead of time, so that we know so many people are hiring people off have a gut feeling? Yeah, we’ll just Oh, hey, well, I like them. Okay, that’s great. But that’s a small piece of the puzzle. Yeah, they need to be a good culture fit and all that. But do they have those intangibles? And these assessments we use can identify that and they were a lifesaver for me. And Lance love them.
Damon Pistulka 54:46
Yeah. You know, I asked that because I was introduced to it many years ago. Actually, my brother was in HR and in golf. It had to be in the early 2000s that he said, Hey, you got Take this, this, the the test and go through this. And then we started actually using it from a from a company that that did it.
And man, when you start to really understand, you go out and you find your best performers and what they look like on a personality basis and or even just the, the, whatever you’re using, there’s many different ways to do it. But I realized that my point is, I realized after doing that is, you oftentimes hire somebody that’s like you and they’re not even the right person for the position. That’s what I realized real quick is like, Do not try to, you know, go by a gut feeling because you’re wrong half the time.
Jason Caywood 55:39
Absolutely. And again, I there is hiring is part art, don’t get me wrong, yeah, is an art to it. And yes, they need to be that cultural fit and everything. But we cannot ignore the science of it. I want to say it was the end of last year, maybe, you know, fall of last year, Harvard Business Review, put out an article. And they said the cost of hiring the wrong salesperson was up to $300,000. Yeah, actual costs, lost opportunity costs.
All that. And I see that all the time people just hiring people they know or someone that was referred. And that’s I mean, referrals. Great. Got to make sure we’re doing our due diligence on the front end, and and bringing the right people in to begin with. And I’ll tell you again, I learned this lesson the hard way, because I didn’t do it one time early on with my first client. But now, if I have somebody that’s talking about engaging with me, and they’re not going to do those assessments, I will not bring them on. Yeah. It’s too important.
Damon Pistulka 56:38
Yeah, you’re right. It is because that because well, because you’re you’re I don’t know you’re trying to put out a forest fire or the garden hose. And sometimes that’s not a good analogy. But if you got the wrong people on the bus, I mean, you just don’t get there.
Jason Caywood 56:53
Yep. 100%. Yeah, we got to make sure it’s the right, folks, that they’re trainable that they’re going to take advantage of it. And all that. Absolutely.
Damon Pistulka 57:00
Yeah. Yeah, that’s true. That’s for sure. Well, you know, it’s so funny, Jason. Because when we started, before we got on, you guys said, Well, how long do we usually go? And and it’s like, well, you know how long we really have to do that. So well. We’ve been on for 57 minutes now. So See, I told you, we don’t have to worry. I knew you’re passionate about what you do. You’re really good at what you do.
And we’ve got a nice write notes. Here, we got a lot more things we can cover. But one of the things I wanted to cover quickly before we’re done here, and we wrap up is so what really is the one thing that you see now that if a salesperson could take away one nugget from our conversation today about their technique, or behaviors or attitude or anything you’ve talked about that you said, Man, it will help if you start thinking about this tomorrow?
Jason Caywood 57:57
Sure. Well, first of all, engaging outside help, whether whether it’s, it’s me, somebody else, I don’t care who it is. But you will never reach your full potential if you do it without outside help coach, mentor, something like that. Okay, so I think at the very bare minimum, you’ve got to do something like that and engage whether it’s, again, a mentor that you’re not paying, but you’re investing time, or a coach, or whatever it is, you’ve got to engage in outside help, or you will never, you’ll never reach your full potential, first of all, but when it comes to sales, honestly, I’m going to come back to the behaviors.
I’m going to come back to, you know, clearly identifying the behaviors you need to engage in on a daily and weekly basis. And it takes some work. You know, some people say, Well, I don’t know those numbers. I don’t know how many discovery meetings I need to have to get to a presentation. I don’t know either. Well, if you don’t know that’s okay. here would be my guidance for the next month. Track your performance? Yes, track every phone call you make track every referral you get track every you know, initial conversation that leads to an all the way down to sale, how many of her steps you’ve got, track it from the initial interaction, or initial attempt down to sale.
And after a month, you will then have some ratios? Yes. And then track it from there on out and find out where you can get better. Because once you start having ratios and you start engaging in those behaviors, all right, well, I need to make X amount of sales. So I’ve got to have X amount of leads up you know, to to get there. Well, then that’s where technique does come in and you can start getting better and then you close instead of one out of 10.
Now you’re closing two out of 10. Yeah, now you’re closing three out of 10. And that’s one last thing I want to say is, especially out here in Utah, a lot of these tech companies, what I’m seeing is it’s all about numbers. Well if we’re Closing 10 out of 100. If we call 200, we’d close 20. And I want to say, Well, yeah, that’s right. But why don’t we focus on 100? Yeah, instead of just ramping up, let’s focus on 102 and get better. So at any rate, you know, going on a tangent there, but no, I would say that, identify those behaviors, and do them regardless of how you feel. Yeah, let’s do it. That’s, that’s
Damon Pistulka 1:00:23
a great, great one there and good good advice and good nuggets for for salespeople. And I’ve got I’ve got to add into on the on the coaching, and even if, you know, if it’s something you cannot, you cannot can afford, or don’t really understand how to help you work into it with an accountability partner, get some good books on it. I mean, you talked about Audible, being in the car, it you know, running whatever you’re doing, there’s so many ways to to digest that, that knowledge, and then even an accountability partner will help you get started. But I think as you said, once you start down that process, you find that a coach is probably a good way to go when you get your percent
Jason Caywood 1:01:05
right. And even with the reading, I’ll never forget my first sales meeting at my first sales job in Chicago. The manager brings in an article from Jeffrey Gitomer. And I’d never heard of him. But I went off and I bought the Little Red Book of selling. And then that book mentioned somebody else and it goes, you know, and then just on and on and on, there’s no shortage of great information out there. There’s no shortage of like, some mentors and accountability folks and coaches. So honestly, I This might sound like it absolutely blows my mind when I see people that don’t engage in some sort of outside help it absolutely. I can’t understand it.
Damon Pistulka 1:01:42
Yeah, yeah, that’s for sure. Jason LA, it’s been a pleasure to have you get to let you understand you better and learn from you, because great nuggets here, all the way through, especially about you do the right behaviors, figuring out what those are. And I think that’s really some good thing for salespeople here. So if people want to get a hold of you and talk to you more, Jason, what’s the best way to find you?
Jason Caywood 1:02:06
Yeah, so my website is si si.sandler.com Okay, my address Jason cawood with a CCA Why? Who od at Sandler comm or text me 385256506 love to hear from anybody.
Damon Pistulka 1:02:27
Awesome, man. Well, Jason has been great to have you on today and learned a lot and I just appreciate you stopping by. Awesome, awesome, awesome. David in the in just hanging out with us learning from from someone awesome. Like Jason and we will be back here again on Tuesday. And I should have looked at we have on the schedule, but we got somebody else. It’s gonna be awesome as well. And thanks again. Jason. We will see you later.
Jason Caywood 1:02:57
David, thank you so much. Have a great night.
Damon Pistulka 1:02:59