2021 Kickoff

In this week’s episode of Exit Your Way Live, the guest speakers were our very own Curt Anderson and Jeffry Graham. The conversation started with a discussion about the previous year and how it went. Both the guests shared their reviews on 2020 and Covid-19. They also shared their views on the 2021 kickoff. Moving on, they shared how they spent their 2020.

The year 2021 is all set to shine on the world in its own ways. It can get more difficult for mankind or easier, either way, survival is the key for the 2021 kickoff.

In this week’s episode of Exit Your Way Live, the guest speakers were our very own Curt Anderson and Jeffry Graham.

The conversation started with a discussion about the previous year and how it went. Both the guests shared their reviews on 2020 and Covid-19. They also shared their views on the 2021 kickoff. Moving on, they shared how they spent their 2020.

Download our free business valuation guide here to understand more about business valuations and view our business valuation FAQs to answer the most common valuation questions.

After this, the conversation steered towards businesses in 2020. At this Jeffry shared how an ecommerce businesses like Amazon increased their sales during the pandemic time. Moreover, he mentioned that with all the added benefits, these businesses are already in the 2021 kickoff phase.

In between the talk, Curt made an important point. He said that the one word that defines 2020 is the pivot. He said that every one of us had to pivot somewhere in order to survive the last year.

Explaining further, Curt also shared a story. He said that one of his friends is a clinical psychologist for cancer patients and by the start of 2020, shifting his work online was a nightmare for him. However, by November he was efficiently seeing his clients online and he even liked it.

Do you want to know if your business is ready for your exit or what you should do to prepare? Learn this and more with our business exit assessment here.

Furthermore, Jeffry said that due to Covid-19, we have accelerated 10 years of ecommerce transformation in one year. He also mentioned that the year 2021 will be a very noisy year for the internet in terms of traffic. According to him, because everyone is getting on the internet, therefore the 2021 kickoff is noisy indeed.

Later in the conversation, the guests talked about how the world is evolving with the new year. Jeffry said that these days, skills are considered more valuable than any other study. If a person has skills, he is automatically more valuable.

By the end of the conversation, they talked about how going all online will affect the various modes of working and the pros and cons of it. Curt shared how difficult it is for manufacturers because they are not familiar with working online.

Get the most value for your business by understanding the process and preparing for the sale with information here on our Selling a Business page.

Apart from this, they even discussed the difficulties that truck drivers or the people involved in the deliverance of goods face. The talk ended with a healthy discussion on millennials and Gen Z.

Thanks to Curt and Jeffry for sharing their time and knowledge.  Watch the video below for the entire conversation!

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people, business, e commerce, year, amazon, talking, started, manufacturing, buy, marketplace, pay, ecommerce, niche, restaurants, manufacturers, big, bonnie, happen, school, jeff


Damon Pistulka, Curt Anderson, Jeffry Graham


Curt Anderson  00:03

It’s good stuff


Damon Pistulka  00:04

right there, Damon, we’re coming right into it. hi hats. This Yeah, got the high.


Curt Anderson  00:11

Low airband. Who’s got this?


Damon Pistulka  00:15

All right now for that for us, but, you know,


Curt Anderson  00:20

yeah, we are replaying over and over. You just can’t get enough of that. How can you not


Jeffry Graham  00:28

look like in a game of some kind when you’re at like a baseball game when you see these things, you know, and they play the same thing you’ve heard for, like 20 years?



You know? Yeah.


Damon Pistulka  00:38

So yeah, that’s for sure. That’s for sure. But, hey, we just wanted to get on today because, you know, this is our normal time that we’ve got the old zero way live, where we’re interviewing people or talking about something and you know, business life, whatever the hell we’re talking about on the day, I’m just talking to interesting people. But I wanted to get Jeff and, and Kurt on here today, cuz we’re just going to talk about what’s happened this year. You know, we we started in with the intro music and dropping a bomb on me, you know, kind of like last year for somebody threw us a lot of curveballs, that’s for sure. But you know, all in all, we learned a lot. So, guys, welcome.


Curt Anderson  01:19

Well, Happy New Year, boys. We survived 2020 man, and we’re here. Like a year ago.



I got COVID you know?


Damon Pistulka  01:29



Curt Anderson  01:33

about like, a year ago right now. We had no idea what we’re walking into, you know, there was like some rumblings of like, hey, there’s something going on, you know, what is this thing and it’s starting to hit Italy. And, you know, we just we had absolutely no idea what we’re walking into.


Damon Pistulka  01:50

Yeah, yeah. No,


Jeffry Graham  01:51

it was a total blind. It was a blind side. left hook from EDC come in, and yeah, like, this can’t be real. And then early on, you know, the whole you know, grocery store bombardments and


Curt Anderson  02:05

yeah, yeah, exactly. Like the kind of forget about


Jeffry Graham  02:09

the toilet paper hoarding that was gone. Or a march or whatever it was, yeah. It was like, What is going on here? We like apocalyptic here. We gotta like, but you know, people were going buying guns and, you know, yeah, I’m ready to kill my neighbor. If he comes from my logic. It just it’s like, you know, heard, you know, oh, they’re doing it. I’m gonna do it, you know?


Curt Anderson  02:36

Yeah. 100 people survived before Sharman, you know?


Damon Pistulka  02:42

Well, yeah. Yeah.


Jeffry Graham  02:43

Well, it’s I don’t know. That’s what they did.


Damon Pistulka  02:46

I never even thought about that until you said it again. Because it’s, it’s weird how quickly we go past that stuff. Right? Because I remember standing in a grocery store for an hour and a half. Right grocery store for now.


Jeffry Graham  03:01

And the cost Costco was like rationing?


Damon Pistulka  03:03

Yeah. Yeah, it


Jeffry Graham  03:05

was really interesting because it evolved so quickly with COVID. And then what was really wild was remember how like the first like, month, two months, it was like business did a, like a slingshot thing. It was like a one at where no one’s going in there. When the roads were empty. It was almost like it was like weird. It was like Christmas Day driving sometimes when you wanted the roads are empty on Christmas Day, times in the morning. Several ones at home with their families doing presidents and stuff or whatever.

Or you know, or New Year’s Day everyone’s hung over so yeah, yeah, but yeah, I mean, it was a weird it was a weird situation when we went to when we went came back to Washington during COVID cuz Yeah, and got sick. We driving across the US was just the weirdest experience I can’t even explain it was it was a it was in the heart of like, the height of it was like march was like March or something. Everything was shut down. Yeah.


Damon Pistulka  04:05

So you were right in the middle of it when that holiday


Jeffry Graham  04:07

executive orders were getting slammed around but it was weird because you go from state to state to state across the country, you know, from like, Illinois, across all the way to Washington and yeah, it was like South Dakota was you know, went through South Dakota was different and the Badlands was just eerie quiet all the park down there was no camping there was no motorhomes there was no semi trucks even barely on the road. It was it was definitely Yeah. On in a car I’ve had no planes, morning blind, really. I mean, they were like had all hit. They hadn’t even put in all the precautions that they have now, I guess. Yeah. It was. It was a weird time and in the business was changing quickly.


Damon Pistulka  04:48

Yep. Yeah. Oh, it’s just it’s it’s just like man, being in the restaurant industry this year. It has been like oh, get kicked, get punched in the gut. Once you know when you had it. Shut down to beginning. Oh, it comes back and oh, maybe we’re gonna get something back and get punched in the gut again. And then you then you look at you get hit now, in the busiest time of year for bars and restaurants around the holiday, you know,


Jeffry Graham  05:14

ours years gyms, you know, health facilities,


Damon Pistulka  05:17

you know? Yeah, yeah.


Jeffry Graham  05:19

And even like, physical therapy clinics, like, yeah, they got hit hard to write and is sad, because it’s, it’s, it’s to no fault of their own. You know, it’s like your restaurants not, you know, in the restaurants we know operate on thin margins and have, you know, you’re in that because you love it, you’re in it, because you want to feed people like, you know, General and genuinely people care. Like that’s why you become a chef and own a restaurant A lot of times, yeah, really care about what they’re doing.

So they don’t in the money isn’t even part of the thing. And then are such thin margins, and then they get just hammered. And it’s like, you can’t do that to a restaurant because it’s not sustainable and takeout. They’re not set up for it, you know, social atmosphere. You know, that’s the reason people go out so we can be social. That’s all gone, you know, so yeah, when was the last time you guys went out to dinner? It’s been a long time for me. Right now. We’re on call. I’m in Colorado, and you’re in Seattle. So we’re,


Damon Pistulka  06:16

you know, we actually it’s kind of goofy. Now. If they’ve got one of these outdoor tents set up, you can eat in it, you can go out and eat in it. Right. So. Yeah. I mean, I don’t know.


Jeffry Graham  06:29

I don’t know. I’m not a physician, but my friends a physician. I’m like, just so you put someone in 10 outside and that’s less COVID me I don’t know. Airplane thing it’s like six feet apart going through TSA but on the plane, we could sit next to each other.


Damon Pistulka  06:42



Jeffry Graham  06:43

I guess less COVID II when we’re all you know, I don’t know if it’s if it’s just if it’s just them just swinging for the fences and trying to


Damon Pistulka  06:53

trying to do the right thing you know? I don’t know. It’s, it’s you look at one. And it’s different to you know, like, if you’re if you’re in in the Dakotas, where I grew up, where there’s not many people it’s a lot different problem than it is in Seattle. Totally.


Jeffry Graham  07:09

Yeah. My buddy Kevin lives out in North Dakota, and they’ve been they haven’t had any, like, closures. The restaurants are open. They’ve been the whole time. I don’t think they got downs. And you know, so for him, he’s like, I don’t really you know, I can’t I don’t see the effects but if you’re in Seattle, Denver, Chicago, a major Metro


Damon Pistulka  07:32

Well, yeah, can you imagine Can you imagine in New York City I you know, I’ve been there and me being from the country I don’t


Jeffry Graham  07:42

that’s fact Yes. And don’t turn on the air either because it’s just blowing the petri dish. Yeah. Your face so yeah. Don’t turn that off. Turn the air on. Right You know, it’s like I’m gonna get sick now because I just blew


Damon Pistulka  08:02

Well, on your Alaska Airlines has commercials about over safe and they’re good commercials right there. They’re talking about the the air being they’ve got the the UV lights that kill the bacteria all this other


Jeffry Graham  08:18

earlier, they doing that? Yeah, retrofitted their planes, I’m assuming they I do have? Yeah, that was kind of surreal. And you know, coming from Makayla to, right. And in Seattle, where Boeing was, you know, let’s go back to like 1918. And it was a super successful, right, the 737. Max was taken on doing well, and then they had the crashes, they get hit with that. They get beat up with crashes. And then and I you know, living around the airfield there and all my neighbors being aerospace engineers, and you know, this stuff.

Yeah. It was like, now they’re all they’re all out. Like, they’re like, you know, a bunch are no, aren’t even working anymore. And they’re aerospace engineers. So where are you going to go? Already a Airbus? Like, that’s the two.


Damon Pistulka  09:06

Yeah. Yeah, that is that is something you know, they just started delivering them again in December the 737. So from Boeing standpoint, they’re, they’re going to be able to at least start delivering planes again, you know, it’ll be hell it might be patched up before they get back to where they were,


Jeffry Graham  09:24

I wonder what the buying is going to be if you know, because air traffic travel has decreased so much. Like it kind of reminds me of September 11. You know, my dad was traveling on the West Coast or east down for two weeks, right, you know, flying at all. Yeah. And they had to, like drive across country just to get back home because he was in Philly on business when that whole thing went down. And yeah, it was kind of like that, where, how long it took travel to come back memories become on a plane because you’re like, Oh, Jesus, you know, this could be, you know, we’d be you know, in a bar and pushed into a building. crashed River. I wonder how long it’s gonna take



to work whatever we’ll


Jeffry Graham  10:04

write because business travels forever changed. Yeah, the way people are doing business like this, you know, we’re doing this like this. We probably do this at a coffee shop or like, you know, in one of our offices in like, jam and you know?


Damon Pistulka  10:20

Yeah. Got an interesting comment here. He said Amazon took over number one in Washington State over Boeing.


Jeffry Graham  10:29

Yep. And I heard a weird statistic. I don’t know if it’s real true, that they had 20% of all their employees had had COVID. In the warehouse.


Damon Pistulka  10:41

Oh, and Amazon. Yeah, I don’t I don’t know,


Jeffry Graham  10:43

at Amazon warehouses. 20% of the employees in the warehouses, if you were to add them all up that got COVID got have had COVID. And no one’s hearing about that. I find that interesting, right. Because if that happened to another business, yeah, you’re shut down. You’re not very interesting.


Damon Pistulka  11:05

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That’s


Curt Anderson  11:07

Amazon’s almost like a government agency now. Like, it’s, it’s a necessity, like, we can’t live without Amazon,


Damon Pistulka  11:13

you know? Well, that’s it, you know, how much did they go up in 2020? Because, you know, I’ve got a neighbor that’s got a FedEx business, you know, one of the routes or a couple of Mount nominees, or whatever. But, you know, he’s like, he said, it’s like Christmas every day. And this was in in August last talking to him. Yeah.


Jeffry Graham  11:33

Yeah. And everyone’s offering two days shipping. You know, ecommerce is that’s evolved into now everyone, pretty much if you don’t do two day shipping, or you’re like, 2018 at this point. Yeah. I just wonder, you know, how much of that’s gonna affect the sellers on Amazon? And and also, the ecosystem of e commerce has changed drastically as last 12 months and is gonna get wild in 2021.


Damon Pistulka  11:57

Yeah, no doubt and think things that I don’t know, the second person I know, that’s never I think I honestly don’t buy a lot I still believe or not the last thing I bought on Amazon was a book.


Jeffry Graham  12:16

Are you into the old school? Man, you’re just trying to get out? I did.


Damon Pistulka  12:22

Yeah. Prime gets here in a couple of days. I’m


Curt Anderson  12:30

just saying, like, with the engineers that you know, in aerospace, I think, you know, the big word for last year was what pivot? I mean, if you ever heard the word, you know, there were so many catch words for 2020. In pivot was obviously daily are


Jeffry Graham  12:43

taking a book out of the angel world, right? Like we got to pivot or


Curt Anderson  12:47

we got to pivot, and how many, how many people how many individuals, how many companies I just had a great, great conversation, best friend of mine. He’s a clinical psychologist at University of Minnesota, and he deals with cancer patients. And so you know, he’s 30 year veteran, you know, we used to be in Denver, you know, been all over the country, very use of pharmaceutical companies would hire him to go speaking around the country, about certain drugs or whatever,

that came to a screeching halt, then, so many hospitals and medical facilities, they’re not doing the elective surgeries, which is where the profits are. So all that came to a screeching halt. So so many of the medical centers and in healthcare are bleeding, because of all those services came to a halt. So University of Minnesota, so they release in the building, he was in a stop the cost are no longer leasing the building. He’s now going virtual with all of his clients.

And if I were to ask him a year ago, you know, he’s done with cancer patients. Now, I said, Hey, you know, what do you think about you know, why don’t you guys just go virtual, why don’t you do zoom meetings with your cancer patient says, he said, a year ago, there’s no way on a planet, I would have total resistance, I would have said No way. He’s now been doing it since November. He’s like, I love it. It’s more convenient for him. It’s more efficient for him. He sees more patients, and his cancer patients don’t have to drag into the office and meet in the middle of winter in Minneapolis to come see him.

He has less, less cancellations. So now you know, here’s a situation that is so much more efficient, so much more effective, better for that customer. You know, we just never you know, Damon, how many times you know, Allison taught us think about the customer make the customer the hero in here, you know, it was just always well, they have to come see us. They always have to come see us. Now. They turned around and turned it around by force. And now they discovered it’s more efficient. He hopes he never goes back, you know? So that’s just one example.


Damon Pistulka  14:46

Yeah, my wife had a telehealth appointment yesterday. And you said, sit at the kitchen table donor or doctor’s appointment. It’s like man, this is really nice. I don’t you know, It’s efficient. Yeah, it’s


Jeffry Graham  15:02

good to be able to send you to do blood draws, you know, yeah. They get your results. And then they just do it virtually. I mean, yeah, you know, it is when you’re at the doctor and they come in anyways, they only spend like eight minutes with you. Yeah. And she’s like, yeah, you’re not dying or you are dying, and then they leave. Yeah.


Curt Anderson  15:19

I almost argue I just had to take my daughter to the doctor earlier to get a shot or whatever. So you sit in the parking lot, you have to call in, you know, data. And like, all these cars are coming in and out. People are walking. I’m like, well, you’re go, we would all been sitting in that waiting room, all coughing and hacking on each other. Probably just a total germ fest. Yeah. Now we’re actually sitting in our cars. And I’m like, I bet you’re we’re healthier now. And I’m curious, when when this does go away? How many of these new practices are going to stay in place? We’re not in a waiting room of a doctor’s office with everybody coughing on each other?


Damon Pistulka  15:53

You know, no doubt, no doubt. Now this one, I heard thing talk about this the other day, but how do you do that? I’m just asking. Well,


Curt Anderson  16:04

is there a video somewhere? Can we?


Damon Pistulka  16:10

I guess it’s a good


Curt Anderson  16:17

thing. Thank you for sharing. That’s hilarious. Yeah, yeah.


Jeffry Graham  16:20

Nice thing. The we did the dog, you know, we took our dog to the vet. Yeah, itchy skin kind of thing. You know, and it was weird, because it was the same thing. It was like, wait, get in the parking lot. Wait, bring them in. We take him from you. And then we’ll call you when he’s done. And then you come back and pick them up? And that’s it. Yeah. You know, turn and burn, you know, turn in a lot more patience, you know, but then then we got to go back to like, yeah, that that’s efficient, effective.

And yeah, it’s gonna be good for his practice. And but you know, he doesn’t need staff then. So then those people get displaced, and technology is going to take over all of his appointment setting. So he doesn’t need anyone to help him with that. So that’s the displaced, you don’t need CNAs anymore, you’re not gonna need dental assistance as much, you know, like, a lot of these things, or whatever, you know, in the spaces are, then you have this major displacement.

Yeah. What did what did what happens then? Right? Like, you’re going to retrain them into learning internet sales. You know, I mean, that’s all thing that is kind of crazy about this major episode that we’re dealing with. And then the business model is changing so fast. Like I was saying, I think before Damon, when we talked months ago, I said, we covered 10 years of e commerce and one month, one year, yeah, 10 years of evolution in one year, like,

I suspect that we will get to this point in four years from now, you know, around 2025, you probably see full automation and machine learning and you know, a lot more AI and a lot more of this stuff. And then you would need people, right? Just technology would just displace them. Oh, it’s doing that, but even in like, face to face kind of things, you know, and I wonder what’s going to happen with the human element of this right, and your body being a psychologist and people’s mental health? Because now, you know, you’re displacing folks. I went to school for something very specific, and now they don’t have a role. Yeah. You know, again, since then, since we’re so big challenge.


Curt Anderson  18:27

And since we’re all ecommerce guys, it just, you know, we like from a psychology standpoint, when I’m talking to him, I’m like, you think of folks with addictions, marriage counseling, you know, Professor Pete was on, you know, a lot of stuff that he does. Now, you know, you can just do it virtually, again, it’s more convenient. If you have, if there’s some issues that you have in, you know, you don’t want to be in public at a public office, or whatever, you know, now you can do it in the comfort of your home in the privacy of your home.

And it’s, you know, I was on a call with a local college reached out to me, they’re trying to get more in e commerce. They’re like, they’re trying to figure out how can we promote our classes? And again, they’re so stuck. Not you know, so, so many businesses, universities, you know, take academia, very resistant to change, legacy, brick and mortar, what’s going on, you have the University of Phoenix’s you have, like University of Southern New Hampshire,



you know, a lot of online school.


Curt Anderson  19:26

Exactly. And they embrace e commerce years ago. And now they’re just their cash cows. They’re doing extremely well. And you have a lot of legacy, you know, smaller, liberal arts colleges that are offering the one on ones. And it’s difficult to see like what, you know, what, what’s your competitive advantage now?


Damon Pistulka  19:45

Well, and you you make a great, great point, because the other thing that’s happening at the same time that I think got accelerated like crazy, is, universities have been raising their rates like crazy that just Every year, I mean, it’s insane when you think about what it cost to put our kids through school, compared to what it costs when I went to school or something like that, I think there’s going to be a massive shift in the way that people think about education. Because my son’s in his senior year of college, right? He’s got friends that didn’t go back to school, because they’re going out of state schools cost a lot of money.

And they just said, Listen, I’m not paying out of state tuition for virtual school. And then you look at some of these other people that that really started to think about his school, the right and this was before COVID, just forget about COVID, this has already happened. And they’re going What does a four year degree really do for me, compared to going out and if I want to work in, in SEO going out and taking every mastermind course

I can and learning, you know, paying for those kinds of courses, and spending, just think about if you spend 50 k in coursework, really went out and found the best courses and something like SEO, or pay per click and spent 50 k on coursework? How much farther you’d be ahead than if you went to college. And I’m not saying that college is right for some people, but not for others. But I’m saying now, if you did that, and then you go to somebody that wants to go to a four year degree to get something who is in a similar field even and we’re talking about marketing or something like that. Who’s going to come out ahead?


Jeffry Graham  21:28

Yeah, I mean, you bring up a point, like, Elon Musk just came out right, like recently and said, We don’t care MBAs need to go away. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Also, you got jack Ma, who was said, screw education. You know, yet Peter Thiel, who’s like, nope, it doesn’t work. It’s not effective. It’s not efficient. And and they’re now about skills, right? So if you have the skills, what skills you bring to the table?

How can you help my business, whether it’s an e commerce or other, it’s really skill based. And trade it almost like trade schools, like, you know, when I was going to talk, it was like, go to college, don’t go to trade schools, trade schools are, you know, all your are the boomer parents were just, you know, devaluing trade schools and divine being mechanic. And then you go back out, you come out of this whole thing, and you’re like, Well, wait a second. You went to a trade school, you didn’t get into debt, a large amount of debt. And you’re a mechanic, you’re making good money through that whole time. You don’t have any a debt load? A 200,000. Art degree?


Damon Pistulka  22:28



Jeffry Graham  22:29

if you 1000 our job. Yeah. What it’s like gonna be interesting to see how the school transition and then what do they do with the campuses? Because, you know, that’s a trip. The other part of it is, some people don’t learn well, virtually, like, it’s just, it’s like, it’s like, that’s another thing. We have learning disabilities, and I wouldn’t say their disabilities, I shouldn’t say learning differences is probably better. Because like, I really know that when in school, I would have loved like, sit down and focus, right?

I can’t imagine that, you know, I’ve taught enough classes online, but I can’t imagine like when you’re attending, if you like, the in person interaction of your professor or your teacher, and you remove that from somebody who that’s how they learn. That I know, it seems the same, but it isn’t, right. How easy is the distraction look around your office or like digital or, you know, whatever, then if you’re in there, and they’re like, hey, pay attention, Jeff, or whatever, right?

I don’t know, man. It’s, it’s, uh, you see the effect on these elementary kids. They’re having they’re falling behind. There’s, you know, we are in school, and we’ve heard a lot of stuff where it’s like, wow, you have kids that were up a year ahead, and now are even great. They’ve lost a whole year of development because of disruption of school. No, you’re


Curt Anderson  23:49

making a great point, Jeffrey. And, you know, I’ve got a lot of buddies with the kids in college. And they’re like, you know, I’m paying ridiculous, you know, Penn State or, you know, different big 10 schools are down south. And they’re like, we’re paying a ridiculous amount of money for our kids to sit in a dorm room and to take courses online. And you know, you know, they have


Jeffry Graham  24:11

to readjust their pricing because they gotta pay for that


Curt Anderson  24:14

repricing what’s fascinating is like, you know, you go back to the 90s when the whole internet thing started. Remember the internet bubble you know when the whole you know, that whole thing went on in you know, pets.com and all that was going on but what they were saying was you know, boy retails in trouble retails in trouble. They were just 20 years too early. And you know, so now the Sears the blockbuster videos, you know, Kmart all these brick and mortars that have collapsed Toys R Us.

Now you’re just seeing Okay, now it’s hitting academia. Now it’s hitting health care. Now it’s hitting Wall Street. Now it’s hitting office buildings now hitting all these other aspects, public schools, they’re just finally realizing man, we just, you know, shopping malls. We just don’t need all this brick and mortar. And now what do we do it and it Now just hitting like you’re saying, Jeff, what would have happened five or 10 years now? Now happened in 2020? You know?


Jeffry Graham  25:07

Yeah. And then yeah, and then they’re, they’re tied up that way. Which is interesting, too, is with this e commerce piece, right? You know, I’ve been doing that a long time. And this isn’t new for me. And but it’s very interesting to see people kind of evolve and go wild, just gonna build online store, I’m gonna just start an internet business and, but what they don’t really, really realize is that next year is probably going to be the noisiest internet year record ever. I would say this year coming up.

2021 is going to be the noisiest internet, your meaning that the amount of websites the amount of content the amount of people trying to be, you know, authority figures or whatever, you know, gurus is going to 10 x it already has gone. Right like like LinkedIn is noisy. Now, when it wasn’t as noisy, you know, I remember when the polls was like, you had to get invited to be in the polls. Yeah, articles. And it was like, You’re like a part of a look, click there.

It was like being writing for entrepreneur or Forbes or something. Now, it’s like anybody can you know, spew content. And so what we have is an e commerce and you guys know this. We have a lot of just misinformation everywhere. It’s like, Hey, you could do this with two grand, you’re gonna have a, you know, 10,000 a month Ico right? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I like to get lied to too sometimes, I guess made me feel good. If someone’s like, you’re really sexy or something. But, you know, at the end of the day, it’s like, stop. Like, that’s going to be the problem, right?

We’re gonna run into is just this crap, right? And Quick, get rich quick schemes. And the whole.com bubble went through that a little bit too, right. The mlms. And affiliate marketing was like, the big thing and in 2007 2008, right before the reset that big recession, that was huge, dude, affiliate marketing, multi level marketing, you have your link on my site, I have your link on my site, and that’s sharing and it was it changed, right? It was, it was it was a hot thing for a period of time, and then it went away. And then the only one now hot things are gonna go away and what’s gonna be exactly,


Damon Pistulka  27:11

exactly. Well, we got some we got a lot of comments in here, man, we were talking last few minutes are like opening comments. But I mean, grand off has been on has been on our roundtable in cyber security guy, dude, I’m gonna have him on the live here. I think it’s early in February, late this month. But he brings up a good point about, he talks about another another post in here, too, about some visual, you know, like a holographic projection of your teachers that are kind of in the room with you or something like that.


Jeffry Graham  27:43

Like, I didn’t know chilla Tupac came back.


Damon Pistulka  27:45

Yeah, yo. And then Rob brings up a good point here. So for engineering, I don’t think if you’re gonna be like, Jeff was talking an aerospace engineer, you’re going to be able to do that without going to school. And obviously, this is this. We are talking about things like that. I don’t want a doctor working on my heart. Yeah. gone to school for it.


Jeffry Graham  28:05

It’s a different ballgame. We’re talking about medical school.


Damon Pistulka  28:07



Jeffry Graham  28:09

We speak more I think in business general


Damon Pistulka  28:12

business. Yeah. Marketing sales. Yeah.


Jeffry Graham  28:14

Like, what most people are going to school for communications or something? Yeah, not not med school, I would say that they will not counted in this, you need to go to do that, you know, touching all those instruments, you can’t do that.


Curt Anderson  28:34

Well, and that’s the thing as you talk to people that, you know, they’re their kids are getting a, you know, social work degree. And you know, they have a couple $100,000. And that is painful to see, Andrew, our heart goes out to you. You know, God bless you that you’re you know, congratulations that your child is so successful to go to med school. It’s challenging for the kids that are getting a liberal arts degree coming out with a couple 100 grand in debt. And not you know, they’re going to be a teacher, you know,


Jeffry Graham  29:00

that that’s an unfair advantage for political science. Yeah, yeah. Edit, becoming a writer, editor, editor. And, you know, you go to school for journalism, and that’s changed, you know, money and that is,


Damon Pistulka  29:12

right. Well, unlike my brother when he went to he got his MBA at Notre Dame, and he was there and he’s like, man, I can’t and he went to a little tiny school in the Midwest to get his undergraduate right. He went there and got an executive MBA. What did they look at when he went out to get a job? His Executive MBA from his MBA from Notre Dame right so he was there was going to school He’s like, look at all these chumps.

They’re sitting here paying whatever it was a year at that time, because he’s all like me, but he said, They’re, they’re paying this every year. And they’re just like you said, they’re getting Political Science degrees and nothing off those degrees that free. Don’t get me wrong. There’s there. Those are great degrees for the people who want to do the kind of work that they use that I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with it. I’m just saying that. Man, that’s a lot of money just to say that you went to that school. That’s all I’m saying. Let’s go live,


Jeffry Graham  30:03

we know where that pressure came from. And that pressure came from baby boomers, I came from my parents, you know, you have to, you know, you you got to be better than me and better than I was. So you need to go to these nice like high schools, you need to get good grades. And you’re right pressure was ingrained by a generation nine green, that pressure. So then that then you had this education where everyone went to college. And it was like, when I get my degree, I’m going to be banking bank, and life is good.

And what I’ve learned, you know, through my whole career and through, you know, both sides of the coin, is that it all is gonna come down to the person a lot of times I had, I have a buddy in high school, that I was like, this guy’s a loser. He didn’t finish high school, he’s going nowhere. He He’s, he’s got an enormous amount of money. Now, you know, he had started debt collection agencies and multiple industries and has been a big entrepreneur and drives Rolls Royces and stuff and I thought he was gonna like, be a crackhead. You know, and like,





Jeffry Graham  31:03

you know, because that’s it. And then I have my other you have other friends that went to USC or went to Stanford or Cal or something. And Pepperdine and whatever. And they’re not successful, you know, in a sense of what is success is determined on your own personal views. But yeah, it is your paradigm shift. That happens that is like,


Damon Pistulka  31:27

this is this is Andrew said, James James said a couple of things to it, I’ll get get to his comments. But Andrew make some funny because, you know, I think I got out of college, and I was there five and a half years and, and work through college myself. And I think I came out less than like 20 k in debt they paid for all my school,


Jeffry Graham  31:44

it would have been for you know, wouldn’t you know, that was it was interesting to see. And then now, when you know, when Gen Xers you know, and millennia, children, what are we going to teach our kids?


Damon Pistulka  31:57



Jeffry Graham  31:58

am I going to push like, you need to get that four year, you need to get that you know, like, or am I going to be more like, Hey, what do you want to do that’s gonna, you know, you know, what do you want to do, and then work towards skills in what you want to do? get good at what you want to do. And like everyone says, Don’t lean on your weaknesses. Lean, lean into your strengths, right? fixing a weakness is as always gonna be a problem. You’re slow runner, you’re always gonna be a slow runner.

Yeah, yeah, you’re not gonna be Usain Bolt. Yeah, but if you’re good at something else, then lean into that, and don’t try to be a fast runner. Yeah, some people, it’ll be interesting to see that our generation raising our kids going, alright, what? You know, how do you impress that upon them? Right? You know, because they’re gonna look at dad and you know, Dad dropped out of college. Well, but mom went to college, but, you know, how do you know it’s gonna be interesting to see the dynamic these kids are gonna have to now evolving


Damon Pistulka  32:57

and you get back to the thing of you know, hopefully the vaccine comes in we’re gonna be able to you know, this year is we’ll get it out to enough people that they’ll be able to go back to school this fall if they haven’t already. Yeah. It’s not going to change the problem of you know, in I think about right now and I’ve talked about this I think you guys will heard me say this is that we’ve got all these businesses have been hurt,

I think especially restaurants and gyms and these kinds of things that the ones that are around when this when we start to come back out of this, you know, mid summer and to the summer resorts and all that the resorts I think are still if they can be open now. They’re still busy. I mean, we we left for a couple days, this last weekend, even just to go up into the mountains, and you can’t find a place where you can get out where you can get out of the city and go someplace


Jeffry Graham  33:51

else, ya know, like Disneyland.


Damon Pistulka  33:53

Yeah, not like Disneyland. I mean, but you know where you can and not a hotel kind of resort. But when you go out to Airbnb, if you can find places a market, even at the start of COVID, we went out to different spot out in Central Washington shelana and a lake out there, and the the vacation homes were all rented up. And some of these people that actually own these and renting them out just said, heck, we’re leaving town, and we’re staying in our house for months. Yeah. And, and, you know, just picked up because they can move, they can work some other place. And they’ve done that and like


Jeffry Graham  34:24

we’re bringing a lot of people together with family. Yeah, you know, that we’ll have other been, you know, spend time with your kids. Like, I mean, kids, I’ve been in school for months. So you gotta like have some crazy quality time that you wouldn’t have been able to have. So there are some silver lining and some some good, definitely being as weird as that can even be said, you know, there’s probably some really good things that have come out of such a tragic situation with COVID and all these businesses, but then now what do we talk about is 2021 and well, what are we going to do?

What’s, what’s the solutions? How are we going to bring some of these things to to the table? And that’s I think what a lot of us folks have been doing in the background.


Damon Pistulka  35:09

Yeah. Prepared I mean, honestly, for for us, I think the three of us on here specifically is that we were we use video, we started doing video, and we saw that we could connect I see no hate it. I hate it too. I used to I know you even worse than me. But But we saw that it works, right? We saw that works. You can you can do video like this. You can build relationships. Yes. Then like sitting down and out and breaking bread and doing doing those kind of things. But it’s, it’s okay. It’s okay.

And it works. And I think that what we did find and is that this is going to be a part of our life probably until something better takes over a part. How much I that’s what I really think we’re going to see is is how much is is imperson. How much is is actually video because, hey, look, I haven’t had to get in a car and fight two hours traffic each way. Yeah, for a year. And how hard you think is going to be to get me to crawl back into a car and drive two hours


Jeffry Graham  36:18

insurance companies are making a killing. Oh, yeah.


Damon Pistulka  36:20

Yeah. We got a Bonnie stopped by to she’s here. Bonnie could see it. Yeah. Of course. And she’s in the video body, killing it on Tick tock, probably up to 7 million videos


Jeffry Graham  36:34

and more.


Curt Anderson  36:35

Yeah, yeah. And with body being here, that’s my


Jeffry Graham  36:39

next, you know, YouTube.


Curt Anderson  36:43

She’s killing it on Tick Tock on YouTube. She’s absolutely crushing it and Bonnie’s in Manhattan, my brother in law, who he’s a hedge fund manager, and he’s in Manhattan, and lives in Jersey. He hasn’t commuted in nine months, 10 months, you know, and absolutely loves it. You know, he’s gained, you know, you talk to people on the commute. They’re like, we just gained 10 hours a week of our lives back. Yep. 10 hours a week times. You just gained 500 hours a year by not commuting. You know, so


Jeffry Graham  37:14

walking was a guy. Yeah. Yeah, there was a guy, friend, we used to commute to Microsoft and Seattle, one of my wife’s friends. And he got cancer in the passing. But he said that he calculated he spent three years in the car. Three years, through his whole career, Microsoft commuting three years is how long, much time he spent in the car. And you know, the end of his life with getting cancer was like, I wasted three years of my life. Yeah, you actually are on a highway for a job and I’m dying. Yeah, that’s true. And I think it’s a very interesting thing. Right. I mean, it’s great that that we don’t have the end and also less accidents, less deaths. I mean, this is Yeah, come from this. That’s true.


Damon Pistulka  38:00



Jeffry Graham  38:02

we’re to say good things, but less people dying on the roads. Always good. But yeah, I mean, yeah, it’s, that’s a long time. Three years, man. And I would say how much time have we spent in the car Damn. Even in like the, you know, three years of commuting around together, we realize, I don’t even want to calculate that. I’d be doing other things in the car on my laptop while he’s driving. You know, it was but you know, I’m so glad we don’t have to keep that. Three hours, you know, direction. Yeah, yeah.


Curt Anderson  38:35

And you look at all the shifting, like you made a great point, Damon, like with robots, you guys made a great point with, you know, there’s just everything’s shifting where, you know, people are outdoors. So, you know, what businesses did great. You know, I think ski resorts are doing phenomenal. Some of the governors are actually encouraging, encouraging people like our local ski resort, we were out there the other day, it was crazy. And they’re encouraging, get out, socialize and joy, you know, keep that distance, but it’s a safer place to have some of that, you know, stimulus or get outside whitewater rafting, you know, camping being outdoors.

So I think, you know, maybe in the past folks were like, oh, we’re going to go to whatever the beach or Hawaii or you know, you fly somewhere, but instead, maybe folks stayed local, like you did over Christmas name. And so there’s a lot of shifts and a lot of opportunities. So for entrepreneurs, if you got caught into a business, where this really had a negative impact, we’ve, we’ve encountered a lot of great stories like David that one from Alibaba, that gentleman in Brooklyn, he was made he makes like these giant metal sculptures, sculpture work for events all over all over Metro New York.

When when COVID hit it, can’t you know his business dropped 70% Yeah, 30% literally overnight has been in this huge project that ended up he immediately. You know, you can sit around mope and woe is me. He rolled up his sleeves. They started doing face masks. They landed a man subway, the I think the glass shields for subway cars. And now he’s up, you know. So I mean, like, if you can have the current stamina to make that, you know, again that word pivot, but there’s a lot of great opportunities that make that shift.


Damon Pistulka  40:13

Yeah. Well then you look at other people like you talk about Dr. Elliot vigourous. Yeah. Those guys incredible story about those guys. Because they they were sitting around documenting this guy this whole year. Yeah, they’re doing that stuff and it gets cut. I know. They write a book and wrote a book in 45 days or something crazy like that they’re going to be talking on the 14th of January on the roundtable. But they wrote that book. And and yeah, those those speaking engagements went away that but he subsequently in 2020 spoke to more people in a single event than he ever did. He did one in India, from his home in in colorado. 2000 people, right. Oh, great. In Greece,


Curt Anderson  41:03

he went to Greece for six weeks. Yeah, yeah. That that is a person and Ben, our friend Ben Baker, he would they call it he called it like event. Bingo or COVID bingo or something. We’re like, okay, April 13, got cancelled. Me first got canceled, like their whole livelihoods. were based on speaking engagements. And they’re like, you know, like, what was it March 15, when when the curtain was falling? They were watching all those events get, you know, their whole income being canceled. Ben wrote a book, Dr. Ian Khan, you know, it’s just it’s, I tell those guys are so inspiring for what they’ve done for 2020 what a gift they are.


Damon Pistulka  41:42

Yeah, and when you look at some of the ways that the other I mean, even that, you know, we work a lot with manufacturing and ecommerce companies, you know, even wait like, Jeff, you talked about the the Amazon warehouses stuff, the changes that they had to make in 2022 to operate First of all, how do you keep everybody sick when you got 500 people going in out of a warehouse? I’ve got a friend up here that runs a manufacturing company with a couple 100 people in it. And they went, I think it was until November, before someone got COVID out of those people. And and then it was only, you know, isolated incident. Everybody they had their procedures in place. But the


Jeffry Graham  42:20

and a lot of times they say it’s from a people at home. Yeah. Exactly. from somebody else. And then they bring it to the work but you know, right. Oh, work. So


Damon Pistulka  42:27

yeah. So it’s it’s just, you know, you see some things where Yeah, it’s kind of like I got, you know, I lost my arm in a construction accident. But I went back to school and now I’m, you know, a motivational speaker for millions of people. It’s kind of like that, you know, it’s


Jeffry Graham  42:44

your workman’s comp lawyer or something, right?


Damon Pistulka  42:47

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I can’t work with my right arm, I figured out my lawyer now that I just don’t want that to happen. I like the lawyers. I know. But the ones I don’t I keep a little leery until I know. with it.


Curt Anderson  43:02

You’re making a phenomenal point Damon with the manufacturers just so resilient, because they don’t have the luxury of having people working remote. You know, 90 whatever. I don’t know the percentages, but somebody has to be on the floor. Manufacturing a good or a widget? Yeah. Exactly. Someone has to run the machines and God bless these people on a floor that left their homes, you know, in let’s go back to March or April, like you’re seeing Jeff like, you know, the stock markets collapsing the world is coming apart.

And now you know, your boss is saying, hey, for this wage, come risked your life and come on my shop floor. And you know, places you know, the the protocols weren’t replaced yet people, some are wearing masks. And these manufacturers they figured it out. They made it happen. And they kept the economy going. So God bless the entrepreneurs and the people on the floor that made all that happen.


Damon Pistulka  43:56

In in this let’s take one step back further, we haven’t talked about any of them yet. The truck drivers



the truck, right? What


Damon Pistulka  44:03

the hell would we have done if they were off in their butts trying to get product to the stores because eating out couldn’t eat out anymore. We weren’t at work anymore. And so all of that food,


Jeffry Graham  44:21

they were even enforcing the law. Like the laws, you know that the eight hour run law, drive, relax those things. And they were like, 12 hours or something. I heard that you could run longer, you know, without taking breaks. So they basically like said, Look, we know this isn’t safe all but it’s if we don’t get this food here. Exactly. We’re gonna have this problem, right. And like they say, what’s a food store? And is what not even 24 hours or 36 hours and yeah, it’s alright. When you have a bombardment, you can’t even recover. Right? So it’s got to be constant, you know, every day


Damon Pistulka  44:58

and you look at it again. And then you go back to you know, I’m just I’m just thinking back about all the all the people that really stepped up, you know, and you got the health care workers, man, look at these people, and they’re still hitting now and I feel bad for them because now I think you’re gone. We see the vaccine, we see other things, they’re dealing with the Thanksgiving. And now which we’re going to hit this and another week or so the New Year’s and Christmas is going to be pretty bad.


Jeffry Graham  45:25

But yeah, it was Yeah, that’s my nurse, and she’s in a needle, needle needle nurse. So she’s got a baby nurse.


Damon Pistulka  45:34



Curt Anderson  45:36

Yeah. lives every day, you know, just think of the person. When I was with a doctor at the doctor, my daughter, you know, we watched the person come out into the car and gave a COVID test, you know, like, you know, like, they’re putting themselves at risk. The people in ICU, the ICU departments, the doctors and nurses. Yeah, so many people in a difference, you know, you know what, you know, obviously, we were we weren’t around for Pearl Harbor, but you know, we were round for, you know, 911 or, you know, other tragedies that have happened,

it was pockets, or, you know, it was somewhere else or as Manhattan or whatever, you know, this was so different because it’s affected, everybody, it’s affected all of us in, you know, and I, hey, Happy New Year, Nick. And, you know, and I’ll give you guys credit, I always give you guys credit, Damon for you know, I’ll go back to that first week, you and i, you and I connected like that first week of COVID. And the very next week, you guys put out this meeting, you’re like, Hey, we’re gonna have a What the heck meeting.

Nobody knows what they’re doing. So let’s just and we all showed up, we were talking and that was when the PPP loans were coming out. And there was like, maybe 20 of us and I was doing some research on it. I didn’t know, I didn’t know anybody in the in the group. I started talking about the PPP loans and the SBA stuff and, and every week you just you guys just were relentless with your meetings. And now you’ve just created amazing friendships, you know, from, you know, Jennifer wagman you know, Khan and Dr. e. And you know, everybody we can name that shows up every year. You know,


Damon Pistulka  47:13

it’s been it’s been really, it’s been really unexpected and really a blessing. And a blast. Yeah, it just it just, I could I tell you? It really started out. It was so funny, because when I heard Dr. Aly and Dr. Khan and Dr. Alien content about writing their book, when they sat down, they said we gotta write a book. It was Yeah, and not that. What what what we did was anything near that, because I think writing a book is really hard.

You know, but it was like that. It’s like, hell, we got it. We got to give some people a semblance of hope. Because when I was doing turnarounds, man, I would go in those businesses and they’d look like poo, you know, it’s the show, there’s nothing there No, like, like, making it look better than it is when you walk in. And that’s what people are running into. And you just need some help. Because all these business people, you look back and it was 10 years, we had 10 years plus of good economic growth.

A lot of these business owners did not ever have to go through anything like this. They started the business it ran fine. Things were decent, you know. And yeah, we’ve just really been lucky to be able to meet so many great people and at the same time, the the people being stuck at home LinkedIn really exploded as the place people were there and then you start seeing people creating more content and we’re doing more videos and and you go to this group and that group and you start going in you you just vibe with the right people, the people that you like, just kind of naturally come around.

And now what you’ve done Kurt and and you know, we like the round table because a I’m not that serious. I like to just goof off man. But that’s why we love you. Yeah, maybe when we started to work on the manufacturing and the e commerce things and and you know Jeff was in here with us then and and doing that stuff on that manufacturing and e commerce I’m like, wow, the The video has positioned us to go into 2021 and the learning what we learned online learning what we learned on retail, and I don’t know I Chris, Chris Nesbitt, I haven’t talked to Chris a couple months now I feel bad.

But you know, he turned us on to remote and let us try it a while and that works so well. And now you look at how we’re using that in in things like the manufacturing ecommerce Success Series that we have every Friday, and you organize such great speakers for that and they’re sharing solid information. And, you know, this stuff is I got I’ve got to believe that the community, the camaraderie, the the sharing of information is only going to help more people. And as long as we’re helping more people, I’m driven to do it man. I


Curt Anderson  50:04

think that’s what it’s all and it’d be fascinating to see like, how everybody gravitated to the third like, it’s just such an eclectic group of people that just like how did we all stumble together and exit your way meaning, you know, Jeffrey, you had a relationship with these guys you know, there was just a bunch of goofy folks of you know, all around the country that just all sudden started showing up to these incredible wonderful friendships and it’s it’s been fantastic and I think what it you know, think about Bonnie further power closer than ever, man. Yeah.



And finally, I


Curt Anderson  50:38

listened to your podcast with Allison and Ray. Guys, you got to listen to her and manufacturing out loud but what do you think about if this happened in 1990 you know world enough like we’ve been faxing each other you know what I mean? Like there had been events so lonely businesses, you know, we could have put our business online we could have gone virtual we didn’t have video we had no internet. Yeah, this we have such a gift and blessing that we do have access and I think what you know what LinkedIn or social media what it’s done is allowed us you know, we’re stuck in our house helped me help you.

She had an awesome lineup. Yeah. But you know, what it did was like with you guys, it was you know, everybody’s like suffering what’s happening, our world’s collapsing. The guys that were speaking other events are closing in it brought us together in unity to get through and like with Kannan and Dr. Ian like Randy McNeely. If pizza learn Professor pianos, yeah, you know, these are these are speakers that I don’t normally seek out. And like, every week, I was like, Man, these guys are so therapeutic to listen to.


Damon Pistulka  51:46

Yeah, they’re awesome. Oh, it’s


Jeffry Graham  51:49

good to see that that evolution too, because they would probably do it in person a lot. Yeah, they’re out there. You know where it’s going. You know, luckily, they have personality and such so you don’t fall asleep, you know. But yeah, I mean, it’s it’s a weird it’s a shift you know, it’s like room


Damon Pistulka  52:09

to now when we go forward, right, so this is an I’m excited for I’m excited for this year. Because as we as we refine what we do, and Kurt, you’ve gotten a group of us together that can talk about e commerce and manufacturing. We’re now talking with manufacturing essential partnerships are out there with our with our 12 week manufacturing an e commerce webinar series that we got that are free, we’re free, you know, right. For you to come and listen to them and then watch.


Curt Anderson  52:41

We’re on the road. So what’s it What’s it Ray? Ray’s a guy don’t call us marketers Gone Wild, right? Yeah. COVID COVID and Josh Kersey Oh wants me to rent a bus and I’m gonna pick I’m gonna pick I’m gonna drive around the country pick everybody up. And then we’re going to take our e commerce webinar series on the road. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, God forever.


Damon Pistulka  53:02

I forgot. The marketers Gone Wild, though. It’s so funny. But you know what I really, I really am excited for us to see what the hybrid events look like. Because this is what I think will happen is the speakers will return to live. But will they return to the same size audience or will they be doing it live and virtual, and you then can attend virtually? Because Listen, if I’m going to pay $1,000 to go see something? Just say I’m going to go whatever you spend to go see Tony Robbins right. Now,


Jeffry Graham  53:32

it’s more than that.


Damon Pistulka  53:34

Yeah, whatever it is. That could be 50,000.


Jeffry Graham  53:37

Tinker Anderson


Damon Pistulka  53:37

Yeah. So you got to pay 10 Ma, you really like for a for a five day seminar? Well, or that’s probably not a great example. But I’m going to go somewhere I’m going to see a two hour seminar right? And I’m going to pay a couple 100 bucks to see it. Well, if that speakers are alive and someone can pay 200 bucks live, or I can pay 200 bucks and watch it from my home like this. Hell if it’s not something where I’m worried about networking with people I’m gonna consider doing it from home now.


Jeffry Graham  54:05

Right remail helps out a lot. Right


Curt Anderson  54:08

and remote. Yeah, you just took


Jeffry Graham  54:11

help with it networking. Yeah, you know, I like Rhema I wish it was like 10 per table versus whatever it’s like yeah,



I know the six is a little bit and


Jeffry Graham  54:23

I think that’s evolution. You know, that’ll be like Gen two of that product. Yeah. 2.0 or whatever. Yeah, I mean, totally it’s but then you also can get a bigger audience right if your virtual because the guy that couldn’t attend that wanted to attend can attend now because he’s got school or the or the what what whoever right and yeah, I think that’s gonna change things. It was gonna be interesting to see because you know, Gary Vee is like old school content guy, right?

He always push content push content. Well, if you’re boring, you know what if you suck at that, you know what I mean? What do you know you push yourself Don’t push content No, because like some people are really, genuinely exciting to watch. So I said, like Tony Robbins or whatever speakers, it’s like, well, what do we do? Or how do you help someone that just doesn’t have it? And then


Curt Anderson  55:14

that’s a great point Jeffrey nuts. Like we’re talking with the manufacturers what we like, you know, I kid around. When we do these webinars, I talked about market your manufacturing operation, like you’re a five star resort. So, you know, you can be the most introvert geek, emcee, geeky, you know, engineer, you’re a widget expert, widget geek, you know, and the thing is, if if I’m, if I’m a buyer for Boeing, or I’m a buyer for Fortune 500. And I need like this little goofy part widget, and you know, I’m googling trying to find this machine. And I find that video and it’s a painful introvert and they’re not very exciting. They’re not Gary Vee, but boy, they can make a product. And I need today, he’s he or she. Exciting.

That is the most thrilling thing. That’s the winning touchdown problem, right? You just run in the ninth in the bottom of the night. You know what I mean? So that’s what I try to preach to the manufacturers. I was like, I don’t care. Like how if all my facilities a little greasy, you know, oil machine shop, you know, blah, blah, blah hole in the wall. Dude, I don’t care. Because if you you know, in Bonnie, so does she just, you know, she’s killing it here. Or she did on video and I use her as an example of like, I don’t care. You know, she says, I can make a garden hose. Interesting. No, she said on Allison’s panel


Jeffry Graham  56:32

one, the one that like sucks in like elliptical. Yeah.


Curt Anderson  56:36

But But Bonnie on Bonnie’s podcast with Ray, Ray, you gotta listen to it. It’s hysterical. as consultants, how many times have we done this, we walk into a client walk into a manufacturer. And you know, we’re trying to prove our worth. So we’re gonna point out the problems or flaws, right? And honey, just in with that, you can hear just Bonnie saying this.

He’s like, Well, you know what your problem is, and like, you know, the person wants to throw you out, like, they’re not gonna buy from you, you know, and her and Alison are going into this whole thing and raised in the background, just die in it. Hey, you know what your problem is? And let me tell you what your problem is. And then I’m going to tell you how I’m going to fix it. That person can’t get you out the door fast enough. So you get a chance you get to hear me talk. I


Damon Pistulka  57:18

will listen that now. Now here’s here’s an important question. I’ll ask you guys. I know you’re Jeff is out on this. So clubhouse. This is the rage man if you haven’t heard about clubhouse, but are you on it? Kurt?


Jeffry Graham  57:33

I’m not the last things I’m on the happier I am.


Damon Pistulka  57:37

The thing that now though. This clubhouse is supposed to be pretty, pretty popular. And it’s ground here on your kind of girl lovely and on it. But it’s only on Apple. So Joe, would you choose


Jeffry Graham  57:54

1990s legacy hardware? I’m sorry. an evolution in technology. And I like people that can create and build apps on platforms that aren’t limited.


Damon Pistulka  58:09

Well, yeah. This is the deal. I’m sitting here, I’m with you. And I’m like, Am I going on something earlier today? And someone said, Hey, you need to go buy an Apple phone for it. And I’m like, man, I love that I


Jeffry Graham  58:24

like I love that Apple is great, you know, yeah, it’s a great way I can knock out I love Apple as a brand. And in a business, if they’re phenomenal. But as far as you know, being any common being highly technical, and a lot of aspects. I like things that are technical, technologically advancing quick. And when you have open source like Android and things like that, where you have other people that can plug into that. And you don’t have to go through the apple process. It’s a different it’s a different kind of user experience. It’s different interface. But then of course, you know, you’re either picking Google or Apple, that’s what your choices are now. Yeah.


Curt Anderson  59:05

It’s Coke and Pepsi, McDonald’s and burger. Like, what’s gonna be fascinating, you know, I guess kind of a little prediction, like what you’re saying, Jeff, like, how everything just escalated. Now is everything, you know, if you’re a business, and you know, we’re talking about the professionals, you know, doctors, lawyers, I don’t care who you are, like, you have to have some type of online presence. Business bottom line, it’s ecommerce. And like, that’s where we’re trying to have these breakthroughs with manufacturers, because they’re like,

Well, when I think e commerce it’s you know, that transaction on Amazon and I’m manufacturing half a million dollar parts that’s still ecommerce in what I would I feel that we’re gonna see over this evolution is niching down. If it’s too big, you’re going to see like many LinkedIn ads that are, you know, maybe industry related or you know, just thinking Manufacturing, or there’s going to be more marketplaces. You know, we’re bullish on Amazon and Alibaba or like Digi key Zorro, you’re going to start seeing more and more niche marketplaces. Because you can make a great living, you can have a million dollar business and be super profitable make a great living as a solopreneur.





Curt Anderson  1:00:19

you know, I have a handful of employees, just because you know, you you’re not, not every, not everybody is going to build that 100 million dollar company. Make a great living. Half a million million couple million bucks on e commerce Professor knows, you know, he knows that. Yeah,


Damon Pistulka  1:00:34

yeah. Yeah. But you know, you make a great point, isn’t it? I forget, Andrew knows this. I don’t know that the statistics. But isn’t it like 80 or 90% of the economy in the United States is under under two and a half million dollar businesses or something? Like that? Is a crazy, crazy thing to swallow?



Yeah, I think Yeah. It’s like


Jeffry Graham  1:00:52

75% under a million in revenue there. Yeah, like restaurants. And yeah, because that’s a large part of our GDP. But what’s interesting, though, with this ecommerce transition, that we see in e commerce is a generic term, right? We kind of throw it out there, right? But it’s transacting online, whether it’s a service or a product, right? You’re going to have opportunities for other marketplaces that are going to happen. You’re also going to have a lot of pushback on marketplace.

Amazon’s already feeling that now. You know, I’m very interested to see what happens next year, is, are we going to see evolution in marketplace? Are we gonna see other marketplaces start to kind of come up to the surface and be a player? Are we going to see the other way around where it’s going to be more? Hey, you’re paying us larger margins? We’re going to take advantage of sellers.


Damon Pistulka  1:01:41



Jeffry Graham  1:01:43

that’s already happened? And is it going to continue to go that way? Because, hey, you know, now Etsy, 20%, something like that. That’s a fat margin for him a good, you know, that you’re making fruit and they’re, they’re not advertising your stuff. You’re just, you just play


Damon Pistulka  1:01:59

a few percent on it. And


Jeffry Graham  1:02:00

they just changed it. Like, weeks ago, they added in this like, partnership with with PPC with Google, and like, they kind of forcing you to do it. Yeah. But yeah, the cost like FBA, right, we’ve seen those numbers go from, you know, it was 15% in a day. Now, it’s a 35 38%. margin. Okay, so as an e commerce business, how are you going to be successful running? restaurant margins? Yeah, yeah. When the marketplace is taking so much away, and then then the marketplace is going well, we make our money on advertising. Now we’re gonna you have to advertise and sell anything.

So now we’re gonna get that too. So now you’re at like, 50 points. And again, it becomes this like dichotomy of like, well, we got to see a change and give people a chance. And with these manufacturing errors, and I think is is the niche down, and I think they’re going to collaborate people with common interests, common goal, common problem, are going to come together, it’s going to be tighter knit, and you’re gonna see a lot more focal focused ecommerce success, like extreme terrain, I use it for cheap parts.

Yeah, I will buy only cheap stuff really from them, because I like buying from their site. It’s a good experience. They know what they’re doing. It’s easy, right? I’d rather do that than by an independent seller on Amazon. But some erasings another one too, or, you know, green itchy, but they’re very successful e commerce business is doing Yeah.


Damon Pistulka  1:03:24

This being the thing that I think they’ll happen to and we talked about e commerce, as you said, generically, I think that this spillover of e commerce is going to be these businesses that have no ecommerce, right? You might not be, you might not be selling a widget to anybody other than your own customers, but just that the further refinement and make it easier for you to transactions together. You know, because you look at even the brick and mortar stores. I I don’t I don’t go into an AutoZone or a Lowe’s or Home Depot anymore. I usually buy it and go there and pick it up. Yeah. Yeah, I don’t even blame anymore if I’m going to, especially if I’m making


Jeffry Graham  1:04:05

their first right, you know, like,


Damon Pistulka  1:04:09

pay for it. I’m gonna walk in the door, and it’s gonna be ready for me to pick up


Jeffry Graham  1:04:12

our light bulb online today. And it was like it’s a $9 blinker light. Yeah, like, I’m not gonna go like that Oh, Riley and drive there to buy a light bulb? I’ll have a house in two days. And yeah, I’ll put it in.


Damon Pistulka  1:04:26

Yeah. And I think this is what we’re seeing that you know, that that everybody can relate to, as are those kind of things but that kind of stuff is going to permeate back into the e commerce or manufacturing into a traditional contract manufacturer or even because you look at I’m doing a transaction between somebody and I’m making their enclosures or something.

I’m a sheetmetal manufacturer and making and painting closures, right? Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, well, they might be transferring orders and stuff now back and forth, ei or electronically, but what is it? What does it do? When it’s 24, seven, and you’re really integrated to the to the inventory level, and you just think of the other ways that you can, you can further integrate with your customers and stuff. Just keep making it easier. Maybe


Jeffry Graham  1:05:16

these big box retailers have pivoted there ecommerce strategies to marketplace strategies, right. So you have Walmart now as a marketplace. Yeah, Home Depot is a marketplace. Yeah. So you went from like traditional school inventory and product and selling it to buyer. Now, you send in a marketplace store, as long as you get through approval processes. You can go sell on Home Depot, calm.

Yeah. So your opportunities now have like, gone like that, with all the niche e commerce retailers, period. And then in addition to that, all the big box stores are going into marketplaces. So they’re becoming marketplaces, they’re getting out from, you know, working with their couple of supply supply chain. And now you have your independent storm in the same a government, right? GSA reduced the restrictions.

I don’t know if you noticed this, they went down from 30 was at 13, categorizations. to four. Yes, right. Isn’t it happened just this beginning of this year. So there’s four categories now instead of 13. And so now, it just changes, you know, do D MA in a GSA Advantage, you can go sell the government, you couldn’t do that before? Yeah, you can fill out the paperwork, and you can get on their marketplace. And you can sell to the VA, you can sell to the Department of Defense if you want. And that’s how they’re looking for now.


Damon Pistulka  1:06:30

Well, and the other thing is, too is is it just changed. I don’t know, it was this fall, it changed that. Amazon, Amazon, Fisher Scientific, and overstock and I’m probably missing somebody else. They also now are authorized to that government buyers can buy through them and fulfill their GSA requirements, which is


Jeffry Graham  1:06:52

amazon for a while to like last year they were doing that it would have government agencies buying from Amazon just pay because they can do anything under 10 grand or something. Right.


Damon Pistulka  1:07:01

Yeah. But now it’s Andre change. Yeah,


Jeffry Graham  1:07:04

that was a crazy change this year. Because big deal. Because these manufacturers the huge opportunities what um, I guess, yeah. Is it isn’t so much like, Hey, good for the government getting a little bit smarter about like, wow, competition helps pricing. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, now we’ve sold a lot of wafer. Yeah, is a evolutionary thing, too. And what’s interesting, there is Yeah, marketplace, big 116 billion or something. It The list goes on of like, Who’s going to evolve and emerge? Right, like chewy is a good example of like, like a niche marketplace, right? What pets.com was, I mean, that’s essentially what this mean, petco.com they were still chewy.

I mean, there were they did the same service and then chewy, chewy, did a more, you know, they they became a marketplace. And then they really worked hard on pricing, right. And so they started to edge out off a cost and subscription service. Right. And so they started to evolve a little bit quicker than a big box store. Yeah. echota has an e commerce department versus we’re just an e commerce business. You seen that evolution, and then they got bought, right, they got it. And now they’re owned by the people we’re talking about? Yeah, I think Zimmer PetSmart one of them. I think it’s there. They’re all owned by the same company now. Yeah. They all operate kind of independently as well.

The co founders know running chewy I think so he did acquisition but yeah, like I mean, wait a second Yeah, there’s some little internet company disrupt two major retailers you know, and now they got bought by him of course is the game we play in. But I want to see what happens as this is going to continue to happen in niche markets. That’s that’s pet. Yeah, what’s gonna happen in pharma what’s going to happen in specific manufacturers goods? What’s going to happen in retail products like wallets or key chains or sweatshirts? Or where are the marketplace is going to go and people are going to start coming in these niche marketplaces instead of


Damon Pistulka  1:09:14

these stupid you know, bidding places where you see giving you the cheapest price and that’s what people out there I mean, where you can really niche down and go Okay, I’m the king of hydraulic hoses or whenever you’re making parts or whatever. Yeah,


Jeffry Graham  1:09:32

yeah, Lego resize so the little pieces that you lose in your sets or whatever.


Damon Pistulka  1:09:36

Yeah, I’m good at that. I’m the one making the money on that I’m not out here trying to you know, it’s like you teach teach people curve is nice down into the what you’re best at like the ground strap. You know, Falconer really got the name right. But you know, as as doing something like that, you know, and what you’re really good at and use that as your, your way to, to differentiate yourself. I think Gotta it’s gonna come down to them absolutely crowded,


Curt Anderson  1:10:03

so you can be excited. Right? And we’re right in the midst of it. I feel like I’ve always felt I’ve been in e commerce a long time. I feel like it’s just such an honor to be, like right here right now part of all three. And if you look at retail, even, like go back 150 years, you know, when you you know, like the Marshall fields was such a game changer.

Like if I had the story correctly, like the guy that founded down south when you were in Tennessee, Piggly Wiggly, I think the story was like, the counter, like those goods were on the shelves and then to counter and then you hit it, you know, the clerk had to pull stuff off the counter. And he was just like, why don’t we just get rid of the counter? Just let people pick their own stuff? Wouldn’t that be work? And Bonnie just had a comment, make it more convenient. And in the 1920s?

They’re like, nobody’s gonna you can’t do that. What are you crazy, you know, what you take the dime stores back in the 20s, then I’ll put in Sears came along, or Kmart, then, you know, they were fat and happy. Then Walmart came in, click clean their clock, you know, you had to remember the 90s, or the category killers, were going to revolutionize the world and borders and Blockbuster Video. And they’re buying up and knocking out every little mom and pop on the corner, not knowing that they were just falling right over a cliff because they didn’t know that Netflix and you know, Amazon was just, you know, pushing them right over the edge.


Jeffry Graham  1:11:24

So I don’t we’re talking about speed, right, like convenience. Okay, so I don’t know, if you’ve seen this strategy. That’s happening, people are doing now, essentially initial orders, people order standard shipping, but the company will escalate the shipping, pay for it suck up the cost product shows up in a day, two days. So basically, they take on initial order. So your first time you’ve ever bought on the website, the new your new customer, you automatically order standard shipping, because you’re like, I don’t care if it gets here in five days.

The company escalates the shipping puts it on two day premium or one day or overnights it and you get it the next day, you didn’t pay for it, like holy shit, I ordered this yesterday, and it’s already here, and I paid shipping. I’m gonna buy from them again. And they get you in the game because it’s all about speed. And now you are like, well, you blew me out of the water. I was expecting this in five days.

I didn’t need it right now. But it’s, I got it in two days. Well, you just got a customer, it’s really happy by your internet business. And you eat a little cost on the initial order. But that’s going to generate repeat order. It’s like that’s the kind of tactical things that are going to evolve and change it next year, right? Like people are going to start getting savvy to this kind of stuff. And these Amazon’s a prime two days. Okay,



well ordered standard,


Jeffry Graham  1:12:38

I’ll give you prime, I won’t even tell you about I won’t even charge you for it. I just want you to have that good of experience as an initial customer, right? Gordon Ramsay with the restaurant thing, you got to have someone come back five times before they become like, the one that’s in your business? Well, in eecom, it’s a lot easier to hook the fish, if you’re just getting them right out the gate, and you’re making it a good experience.


Curt Anderson  1:13:00

That’s a phenomenal point, Jeffrey, we always talk about, you know, and Bonnie just said exceed the expectations. You know, in our dear friend Allison always talks about that emotional engagement, that emotional connection. And our friend Jeffrey stern at voice Express, we was talking about it with him. And that’s exactly what it is, if I ship a product out, I’m gonna, you know, that’s Apple’s model. That’s how they turned into a billion dollar company. You don’t just kill them with





Curt Anderson  1:13:26

And that’s a great thing with manufacturing is you know, they have the margins, they have an opportunity to get direct closer to the end user. And I know a lot of them are resistant to get to the consumer. You don’t have to get to the consumer not necessarily it’s the end user who’s actually just using their product and with those niche marketplaces that’s an opportunity with these you know, getting creative on a customer service side there’s so much opportunity


Jeffry Graham  1:13:53

Yeah, not just it’s speed efficiency. You know, it’s a making it a well oiled machine. They’ve done it inside their warehouse inside of their manufacturing processes. They now just convert that into the internet game.


Damon Pistulka  1:14:06

Yeah, so you don’t guys it I didn’t even know I just looked up medigo even on our 15 we know we still got people listening to us man so I know we can wrap this wrap brought this for like scipio right they gotta be falling asleep by now. Yeah, I know cuz we’re sitting here talking about stuff cuz we get excited about e commerce man. Today I was I was hoping one of my clients, you know, we do we help them with price every month and we just figured out a different way to price and I want to tell you, it is incredible. What you could do with e commerce. I just if people haven’t tried it, I don’t give a rip of your selling pan car. Whatever. A custom folded sheet metal part. Yeah, I just


Jeffry Graham  1:14:54

saw your first product right? You just you can just go into like Amazon and look at a product and then All the ones that just suggested or was suggested with this, go look at those products, and just go soar some get one and try it. And Damon? Oh, you’re selling? q tips? I


Curt Anderson  1:15:12

don’t know. But it’s, it’s all relatively the same. And we’re lining up, we’re lining up a few speakers with our e commerce webinar series that are going to be preaching on configurators. You know, we’re super bullish, very excited. And, you know, that’s a big thing I’d like to be a cheerleader for for 2021 is this really trying to either expose the manufacturer that doesn’t realize that that opportunity even exists? Yeah. And then showing them the tools and resources that are out there and available? super easy.

We have Gen alpha, that’s the CEO of Gen alpha is going to be speaking for us. We have a gentleman down the road from you in Portland, it’s going to be speaking for us. So we’ve got some great configurator Yeah, that’s coming up.


Damon Pistulka  1:15:57

Well, and I look at that, again, I go, you know, the configurator. And then we’re gonna go longer, I just know, but anyway, we’re gonna start talking about it. Because Because I, you know, I was on the, the operational end of these businesses and looking at some of these estimates you got to put together and even if your configurator can go, okay, you want this, you’ve told me what you wanted? Here’s about what it’s going to cost, if you want to see even if it just takes something from from that point through time of use, have you saved on both sides, the buyer and and the seller?

It’s insane, down to the point to go, Are you good? Is it $10? Or is it $50? And if it’s close to where you think it’s going to be, then you can, you know, you can elevate it to an engineer at the supplier, or you can move on as the buyer, if it’s not, right. It’s just those kinds of things to make it more convenient to do business is crazy. We just started one this week, we’re building that Faulconer example that we always use. We’re building a new configurator for another product line for his company.


Curt Anderson  1:17:00

He’s so happy and so thrilled. He just you know, he’s had virgin Hyperloop we just landed a huge RFP from Dick’s Sporting Goods. You know, so and it’s, this could be a monster forum. And again, it’s because he niched down in, you know, instead of trying to be everything to everybody, and now you’re nothing to no one, he niche down, he’s focused, and he’s getting like virgin Hyperloop, Amazon, robotics, Johnson and Johnson, you know, he’s a tiny custom made, you know, little family operation,

but because he has this configurator tool, and because he’s attacking those keywords, and you know, in our marketing is very inexpensive, because, again, we’ve niched down we’re not trying to go after, you know, shoes, we’re going after pink running shoes with with purple shoelaces as the example I always use. Yeah, we’ve been down. And so yeah, we’re right in the midst of we’re building another configurator for him. And he’s, that’s cool. Yeah, that’s cool. Well, you know,


Damon Pistulka  1:17:56

if people can’t tell by us going on for an hour and 18 minutes now about, you know, 2020, and how excited we are for 2021, I think we are at the at, I think we’re at the beginning of something that’s really gonna be a lot of fun for a lot of people and you don’t want to make light of the challenges of 2020. And still now, because there are a lot of people who have had had gone through some terrible things. I want to make sure that we we accurately or appropriately acknowledge that.

But man, it’s been good talking to you guys. And we’re gonna get back on do this again. We still recently got 10 people listening to us. And I was like, okay, whatever. But, yeah, thanks for listening to us. We’re gonna come back on and we’re going to have some how tos here that we’re going to do kind of more one on one kind of things. We’re going to talk later this month about growing an e commerce business, along with the manufacturing ecommerce Success Series every Friday at 1030 Pacific.


Curt Anderson  1:19:02

We got speakers lined up this morning. Yeah, the woman Holly’s speaking on Friday. She’s a millennial. She’s just a ball of wax. Man. Yeah, she



loved it.


Curt Anderson  1:19:16

Sorry brother. You know I love it. But yeah, we got it we got a great month.


Jeffry Graham  1:19:25

I mean, come on, man.


Damon Pistulka  1:19:26

Yeah, well, you’re gonna be on you’re gonna be



awesome, Jeff. Yeah,


Damon Pistulka  1:19:33

it goes without saying I just think we got we got some business owners coming some of the business owners telling their story because I mean, and if if there’s people out here right now they’re in business then going on this this. You listen to a few of these stories. These business owners that have you know, been battled battle battle tested a few times.


Curt Anderson  1:19:57

That interview with your brother was fun. Oh man, gosh, that was just so good. I couldn’t reach.


Damon Pistulka  1:20:06

You know, you don’t you don’t know. And here we go again, we’re gonna go longer, but we’re sorry. But I didn’t know you don’t know half the stuff these people go through when he was telling me about it he was telling me about. He was telling me about, you know that time, he said, my second mortgage on my house and a baby coming in. And I didn’t know where my next job was. Just to hear.


Jeffry Graham  1:20:30

Yeah, I don’t really know the whole story some


Damon Pistulka  1:20:36

money partner stealing money like me was embezzling from them. Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, keeping the faith and then being able to go go into business and one of the biggest business people in the Midwest


Curt Anderson  1:20:49

would tell you that was just, I couldn’t get enough of that. Great interview.


Damon Pistulka  1:20:54

But we’ve got we’ve got some other great great business owners lined up to talk and I’ve got I’m really excited about that. Because the it’s gonna really help help people because those people a lot like us with a bit more gray hair. We we knew that but whatever you want to say, but we’ve been battle battle tested, guys, we gone through these things in this habit. They look at these these big challenges ahead of them, right, these big challenges and we go it’s a bump in the road. Yeah.


Jeffry Graham  1:21:30

Right. It’s all relative. You made all the mistakes.


Damon Pistulka  1:21:37

Yeah, well, we’ve


Jeffry Graham  1:21:38

screwed up so much. We’re good at it. Yeah. You know, you just suck so bad, so many times that you learn not to suck as bad. better player, I


Curt Anderson  1:21:50

don’t know. But with our without a team here, we’re trying to stay in our heart. We’re sharing our strike zone, where we’re helping, you know, some of the fort poor folks, you know, Ira Bowman, you know, he was he had no intention of leaving his company, no hands down. And he had it, you know, he had a, he had a pivot that was uninvited. Yeah, God bless him. He’s done. He’s done. I’ve done a lot of work with IRA, you guys have done a lot of work with IRA. He’s, you know, there’s millions of folks out there that were corporate lawyers, you know, they’re gonna stay there for their, you know, their career.

And life changes here, change their accident, accidental entrepreneurs. So, you know, we have an opportunity to help these folks that are new to entrepreneurship A or B manufacturers that they’ve been 2030 year entrepreneurs, they just don’t know, e commerce. They just need trusted advisors, folks that can hold their hand and walk them through that process. And so that’s why we’re staying in our strike zone. This is where we live in and we’re so passionate about helping these people, you know, we want to see these people when we are Yeah, and especially the manufacturer we


Jeffry Graham  1:22:54

all care about really, yeah. My client loses or I’m pissed, you know, because I’m losing then. And hate losing. So it’s a it’s like definitely helping people. I you know, we all got into this because we wanted to help people. I don’t think it was a self soothing thing. It’s hard work. It sucks. You know, you get more crow’s feet, you know. But, man, how many people have we had help be successful? It makes you feel good at the end of the day, like yeah, we’re doing the right thing. Their families are happy their kids can go to schools, they couldn’t go to Yeah, talks about that Charles’s half million dollar tuitions.

Right? You know, yeah, we’ve we’ve sent some kids through college now. For sure. Yeah. But yeah, it’s it’s kind of wild to, to think about helping next this being like more of a, I mean, I want to help as many people as we can. Yeah. And do what we know how to do well, and just bring it to people who, who unfortunately, just haven’t had the visibility or opportunity in the past, and now they’re kind of hand is forced. So if it is forced, Josh, you know, learn from us growing up a lot. Yeah. And yeah, we’ll make it less painful for you. Yep.


Curt Anderson  1:24:10

do our best and have a good time trying.


Damon Pistulka  1:24:13

Yeah, we will have a good time. We’re gonna work our butt off. We’re gonna have fun doing it. Yeah. That’s, that’s the one thing my role is, if you’re gonna, if you’re gonna work like hell, you might as well have fun doing it.



Or you’re really



our motto is tons of fun for 21


Damon Pistulka  1:24:28

How’s that? There we go. Tons of stickers. Yeah, yeah, I’m writing it down. Alright guys. Thanks, everyone, for joining us.


Curt Anderson  1:24:43

Thank you, everybody. Thank you, everybody.




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