Taking Next Level Leadership by Storm

If so, join us for an engaging episode of the MFG eCommerce Success series, where Sarah Mann, PCC, Principal & Connector-in-Chief, Sarah Mann, shares her insights on how business professionals can take leadership to the next level.

Are you ready to take your leadership skills to the next level???

If so, join us for an engaging episode of the MFG eCommerce Success series, where Sarah Mann, PCC, Principal & Connector-in-Chief, Sarah Mann, shares her insights on how business professionals can take leadership to the next level.

Sarah Mann is widely recognized for her executive and leadership coaching. She is certified in several coaching methodologies and has been working with organizational development and executive coaching for 20+ years.
Sarah discusses practical, brain-based coaching and leadership development solutions that fuel individual and business success.

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In her pursuit of helping leaders achieve next-level results, Sarah has clients bring the challenges and the results they are after so she can use her experience to help them make it happen. She takes a simple approach that impacts the clients and their business results.

The show begins with Curt’s electrifying energy, and Wesleyne, today’s co-host and a recovering chemist turned sales enthusiast, is super excited to fill in Damon’s position. At Curt’s request, Wesleyne shares her captivating journey. She discovered her true calling in sales, finding immense joy in the field. Rising from an individual contributor to an international sales manager, Wesleyne faced challenges with her team’s performance. She now works with organizations to build powerful sales teams through her charismatic and motivational personality.

Curt wishes the audience “Happy Friday” and then turns to the guest and affectionately refers to her as “Tsunami Su” due to her impactful presence. Moreover, Curt asks the guest about her childhood hero.

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Sarah discloses her childhood heroes were Sandy from the movie “Grease” and second was her grandmother. The guest liked Sandy due to her style and fashion choices, while her grandma was a “sharp woman” and “she was way ahead of her time.”

“Great,” comments Curt, asking Sarah about her corporate career.

In response, Sarah shares her diverse background, combining experiences in human resources, marketing, and operations. She started her job at a small marketing promotions company that grew significantly over time, working with well-known brands targeting the 12 to 24-year-old demographic.

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Sarah played a vital role in the company’s growth, contributing to various aspects like managing accounts, teams, research services, and operations. After the company’s acquisition and restructuring, Sarah had some interim roles before joining ADP in human resources in 2014.

In search of a change in her life, she presented a PowerPoint to her husband, expressing her desire to quit her job and pursue her entrepreneurial aspirations, which he supported wholeheartedly.
Curt light-heartedly inquired if that was the ideal way to kickstart an entrepreneurial venture, adding a touch of humor to the conversation.

Wesleyne expresses curiosity about Sarah’s diverse background and how she has been exploring various roles in HR, operations, and marketing.

Sarah enthusiastically talks about her favorite aspects of her diverse roles. On the marketing side, she enjoyed managing client accounts immensely, especially with phenomenal clients like Converse. Working on big events and strategizing to target core audiences brought her great satisfaction. In human resources, Sarah’s favorite part was collaborating with leadership teams and providing coaching. Additionally, she excelled in operations, finding joy in making things happen and accomplishing tasks efficiently.

The co-host asks Sarah about her challenges moving from a smaller company to a giant corporation like ADP.
Sarah’s biggest challenge was to adapt to a newer and bigger work environment that she handled effectively over time. She had to readjust to different protocols and processes compared to what she was used to in her previous roles.

then asks Sarah for advice to individuals facing COVID-19 challenges or seeking a career change. Curt seeks Sarah’s counsel on taking that leap of faith into entrepreneurship.

Sarah reveals that she has been historically risk-averse and makes decisions based on fear. However, she reached a point where her corporate job no longer felt like the right fit for her life. Considering finding another job or starting her own business, Sarah felt drawn to entrepreneurship, something she had always wanted to try. The support of her husband and benefits provided her with a safety net. Creating a compelling PowerPoint presentation helped her explore different ways to make money and understand the possibilities of entrepreneurship. Networking was crucial, tapping into her network for guidance and advice.

Similarly, Curt inquires Sarah about how she coaches individuals in reaching such ambitious objectives.
Sarah’s coaching approach is centered around a leadership fluency framework, helping individuals find a path to balance and ease in their leadership roles. The framework is adaptable to each person’s goals and needs, guiding them towards making leadership second nature and reducing self-doubt.

Curt praises Sarah’s website and mentions a blog post discussing two vital facets: reflection and courage. He asks the guest to elaborate on these aspects, expressing his admiration for the article and wanting to delve deeper into the topic.

In Sarah’s article, she reviewed how reflection in coaching helps individuals make significant progress by trying new behaviors, adopting different mindsets, and assessing their impact and results.

Moreover, the guest maintains that in coaching, she doesn’t directly give people courage or confidence. Instead, confidence comes as an outcome of taking action and facing fears. She acts as a sounding board, confidant, cheerleader, and sometimes “an ass-kicker.” Sarah mirrors back, reframes, and asks hard questions to help clients discover their answers and strengths. Her role is not to fix anyone or provide answers but to empower individuals to tap into their innate abilities. Through coaching, clients take new actions, akin to making plays in football, gradually moving closer to their goals, gaining confidence, and achieving success. Wesleyne, intrigued, wants to know the secret to Sarah’s success as a coach.

While sharing her secret, Sarah says that on her website, there’s a blog post that guides people on what questions to ask when considering a coach. She also informs potential clients about whether they would be a good fit for her coaching services.

Likewise, Sarah believes in supporting her clients to achieve their goals without imposing advice or solutions. Her litmus test for a successful coaching partnership is whether they could enjoy each other’s company if stuck in an airport together, as it reflects a strong and harmonious working relationship. Meanwhile, Curt expresses his love for having Darcy in the conversation. He appreciates Darcy’s insight about the difficulty smart people face when asking for help and the challenge of being vulnerable.

Wesleyne asks Sarah how to help people who struggle with defining who they want to be as a leader and how to support them in understanding and defining their leadership identity.

Appreciating the question, Sarah explains that most people struggle with believing they can be more than they currently are. She advocates a progressive mindset, self-concept, and limiting beliefs to help individuals build confidence and see their potential. As they take different actions and witness positive changes, they can hold on to a higher or bigger vision for themselves as leaders.

At Curt’s request, Sarah shares her final thoughts. She agrees that finding one’s identity is crucial, and so is having mentors to help reach desired goals. She differentiates between consultants, mentors, therapists, and coaches, each playing distinct roles in providing support. Regarding balancing stability and consistency with innovation and change in a dynamic business landscape, Sarah suggests starting with the leader’s identity and values. Understanding who they want to be as a leader and what qualities they wish to embody can help guide their approach to handling such challenges effectively. However, the question is complex and requires further exploration.

The session ends with Curt and Wesleyne thanking Sarah for her presence.


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sarah, great, question, people, wesleyan, work, client, coaching, darcy, framework, damon, coach, started, leader, friday, sir, corporate, goals, sandy, love
Curt Anderson, Wesleyne Greer, Sarah Mann

Curt Anderson 00:03
Hello everybody Happy Friday. So what’s lien? Where’s Damon? Man I just I’m who weren’t a demon goal so I’ve got Wesleyan in the house was lien. Happy Friday. What an honor and privilege to have you on stage today. How’s it going?

Wesleyne Greer 00:18
I’m doing fantastic. I’m excited to be here for Damon.

Curt Anderson 00:21
Oh, this big shout out to Damon Nicole is out on vacation with family demons off doing he’s saving the world somewhere. And so thank you for filling in. So guys, if you if you’re not familiar with West lean, you absolutely want to connect with Wesleyan, she does amazing posts on a daily basis just delivers tons of value. She is a recovering chemist, CEO and founder of transform sales. Now here’s the running here. Wessling, this must have been faith, because as a recovering chemists, first off, man, there is a ton of chemistry on stage today because I’m gonna introduce you to my dear friend, Sarah, man. So Sara, happy Friday. How are you?

Sarah Mann 01:02
Awesome, thank you. So

Curt Anderson 01:05
tons of chemistry with my recovering chemists because Wesleyan. I don’t know if you know this, we have a recovering HR professional in the house. So we have two different folks who are corporate warriors, who just kind of saw the light made a little pivot and so took a transformation here, Wessling before we just share with everybody real quick, who’s Wesley just shared real quick, we’re going to dig into

Wesleyne Greer 01:27
am I who am I going to meet today. I am a recovering chemist. And I found myself into sales. And I tell people when I got into sales, I finally figured out what I wanted to be when I grew up, because I loved everything about it, which is not a normal thing you hear people say about sales. And I realized that I moved quickly from an individual contributor to international sales manager. And as a manager, I had a lot of struggles. There were a lot of people who were not hitting the numbers, and they were leaving. And so I had to realize that the onus was on me to develop as a sales leader in order to inspire my employees to do that is what I do. I work with organizations and I build strong sales organizations by building strong leaders. Well,

Curt Anderson 02:17
thank you and how about Wesleyan and guys, drop a note. Let us know where you’re coming from Happy Friday. We’ve got Wesleyan in the house. We’ve got Sarah man. Now Wessling, you’re just meeting Sarah for the first time and boy, you guys gonna be fast friends. I want to give you a little fun fact about Sarah. Are you sitting down? Are you ready for this? Yeah, I am. Sarah man is so that last day man is actually so Sarah used to share it like it used to be a really really long, long name. It’s It’s short. It’s shortened Wessling I don’t know if you knew this. It her her name used to be Sarah man. Is she Awesome? That was originally for some reason I was Sarah Why did you short it? I decided that I just thought of that one so Wesleyan. So Sarah, she gave me a nickname we’ve met in person were dear friends. She we met in person. She said what’s my nickname? Tsunami su not so she she was like dude, you’re like a tsunami. Well, hey, when you I go when you meet Wesley I go I have the Houston hurricane here is coming from Houston. So sir, let’s let’s just jump right in. And so guys, thank you, man. We got some great folks here. Alan’s poppin Uh, no. I saw Kevin’s here today. Kevin. Happy Friday. We had dinner together. Last month. We got a two. We’ve got Mohammed Diane Byers here today. I’m seeing this correctly. probeer is here Sunil is here guys. Thank you. Javis notes. Let us know you’re out there connect with Sarah. Sarah. Here’s my first question that we’d love to kick off our program with Are you sitting down? Are you ready for this? Sir, when you were a little girl growing up. Oh, boy. When you were a little girl growing up. Who was your hero? Who was your hero as a little girl growing up?

Sarah Mann 04:02
Oh my gosh. I know the answer. But I’m a little embarrassed to tell you that and get it out there and put it out there. Sandy from the movie Grease Sandy. Like maybe heroes too strong of a word perhaps but yeah. Oh, man.

Curt Anderson 04:27
She are. Please elaborate that. First off if Damon weren’t Damon here, he’d be on a floor Wesleyan. So see, you know, I don’t know if hopefully everybody’s seen the movie Grease. That is a classic. I was a kid. I’m old enough that I was a kid when that came out. But why Sandy? Let’s hear that.

Sarah Mann 04:44
She was just an awkward kid. And she was cool, especially at the end of the black leather pants and the stilettos and I’m like, Oh, she’s cool. I mean, there really wasn’t anything much deeper than that. To be honest with you. I wish I had a better story for you but you exactly that that was my that’s the one that’s the one that’s jumping to mind anyways, I think if I were to perhaps give a better role model in my grandmother would be one for sure.

Curt Anderson 05:16
In grant let’s hear about grandma

Sarah Mann 05:18
was awesome grandma’s a sharp, sharp woman and she was so you know, whatever the year was, you know, she was way ahead of her time she was in a stock market group. She and the ladies were trading stocks. She did not go to college. My grandfather had an eighth grade education and my grandmother handled all the finances and she was just smart as a whip.

Wesleyne Greer 05:40
Now. Tenacity, I love it. I love it.

Curt Anderson 05:44
And what’s grandma’s name? Grammy, Grammy. Grammy, hey, we’ve got a couple of more folks here. So Andrew is here Happy Friday. Andrew, we got Suraj is here today. We’ve got Jason Jason Happy Friday my friend and about this one, Sarah Yes.

Sarah Mann 06:01
I saw

Curt Anderson 06:06
a little summer lovin right good. Appropriate song for for our theme today. So alright, let’s the heat is on it’s summer. What I’d like to do sir, I’d like to get into so Graeme was a great role model huge inspiration for you. You had a wonderful corporate career I’ve saw ADP on your background, I wouldn’t want to do is I want to lead up to like 2014 Give us a little gap on like, give us your background a little bit, your corporate career. And then I want to get into your entrepreneurial journey. But let’s start. Let’s start there on your your corporate career.

Sarah Mann 06:37
Yes. So my background is actually a blend of human resources, marketing and operations. So I was in corporate for a while and then I went and I pivoted and I was employee number six at our really swamped What started as a really small marketing promotions company we were targeting. We were excuse me running marketing promotions for brands that were targeting 12 to 24 year olds. So I had great clients like timberland and converse and Dunkin. Well, now Dunkin Donuts, and we did a lot of cool stuff. And it was a ton of fun. And I was there for a long time. And I helped them grow the business. We were about, I don’t know, couple 100 300 people at the time that I left, we were union revenues. And that was starting from six people. Bootstrapping and what it was, it was I’ve never worked so hard in my life. And it was a phenomenal, phenomenal experience. And I have lifelong friends out of that experience. And I learned a lot and I got to do a lot. So I got to manage plan accounts, I got to manage teams and all kinds of and I got to I did research, I headed up client services for awhile, I headed up Research Services for awhile, I headed up the org the Operations Group for a while so I got to do a lot which was great. And then I business was acquired, restructure, etc, etc. I got laid off and I had some interim gigs. And then I ended up at ADP in human resources. Okay. And in 2014 I just was looking for I needed things to be different in my life. And I sat down on the couch next to my husband and I shoved a PowerPoint under his face. And I said, I’d like to quit my job. Here’s how I think I can make money. Will you support me? And he sort of glanced over what I’d put on PowerPoint said Yeah, it looks good. And went back to watching Sports Center. So

Curt Anderson 08:32
I you know, and I and I, that was my first thing on my notes right here. I was gonna like, so just for anybody out there. Sir. Is that your advice? You go to your spouse with a PowerPoint while they’re watching? Go in your case, sports center. Is that how it’s done? Is that how you start your entrepreneur? No.

Sarah Mann 08:50
I think he didn’t need the PowerPoint. I think I needed the PowerPoint. PowerPoint, and I needed. I needed the PowerPoint support.

Curt Anderson 08:59
That is that is absolutely hysterical. Yeah.

Wesleyne Greer 09:02
I’m curious. So you said your first stent into you know, really, I guess develop deciding or understanding who you are, is you did a mix of everything. And you said you did have the HR operations and marketing, which are kind of like on opposite sides of the spectrum of any organization. Yeah. So in each of those roles, what would you say was your favorite thing that you got to do?

Sarah Mann 09:24
Oh, gosh, well, some of it’s easy. The so with the on the marketing side, managing client accounts, because we just worked we had phenomenal clients and we were doing fun things. We were doing big events at Converse was my primary client for a long time. I had more pairs of Chuck Taylors in my closet, I you know, and it just it was a great brand and and the team was great and we we had a lot of fun. So and it just was great to be able to help people come up with what’s the strategy that’s going to help you target your, your core audience and And how can we execute on that for you? And human resources, the part that I really love the best was partnering with the leadership teams and coaching and operations. I’m good at operations, I’m good at making stuff happen and getting things done. So it, that piece of it came naturally. Yeah.

Wesleyne Greer 10:21
And then another thing that I wanted to add is, so a lot of times people don’t realize the difference of going from a really small organization to a really big or vice versa. Yeah. And so what what was the biggest challenge that you had going from our organization to a giant like ADP? Yeah.

Sarah Mann 10:41
Oh, gosh, I don’t know that I’ve ever given that any thought? Well, I think I started in a really large organization. My first job out of college was a company that’s that had many, many years ago was acquired by EMC, which is now Dell. So I started in a pretty corporate environment. And then being in the agency was great, because we were just really a tight knit group of people even as we continued to grow. And I was very close to the CEO and the CEO, CEO. Oh, and so then, I think going to ADP, which was also really corporate was back to where I had started. So it just maybe took me a little bit of time to readjust like, oh, wait a minute. There’s we’ve got some different protocols here than we then I’ve had for the last 1011 years. So

Curt Anderson 11:35
that’s fantastic. Hey, let’s we got some more friends here. So hey, Leslie. Whitney Houston is in the house. So Whitney, happy Friday. Thank you for joining. I wanted to pull this comment for you, Sarah. Sandy says, Hey, I’m sorry, Diane says Sandy then given a peer pressure, demonstrated self worth and work through difficulties and transform herself by her terms. We’ll drop the mic there, Diane. Thank you. Other folks, pin pink. I don’t want to pronounce that one for me.

Wesleyne Greer 12:05
Hang tight.

Curt Anderson 12:06
There we go. I’m Sanjeev here. Hi, everyone. We’ve got Do we have questions, man, drop the questions we would love for you guys to connect, connect with Sarah connect with Wesleyan on LinkedIn. I have a series website in the chat. It’s Sarah with an H dash N A N N That’s double n.com. You want to boy you have a lot of great content on your website. You have wonderful blog posts. I want to hit a couple of those. I want to get back to your husband on the

Sarah Mann 12:34
you know he strolled I’m sure.

Curt Anderson 12:36
I missed a Chris Harrington’s and I was Chris Happy Friday, my friend. We just had dinner recently. George Matthew is here guys. Happy Friday, jot those notes in here. And again, we want to connect with Sarah buzzard. So your husband sitting on the couch, he supported you. So somebody out there that is in corporate or maybe unhappy COVID threw them a curveball wherever they’re at in life. Maybe they’re where you were in 2015. Anything that you want to share is like, you know, taking that leap of faith. I just talked to somebody yesterday. And you know, our mutual friend Darcy, I talked to her the gal that works for Darcy. And she when she took that entrepreneurial leap, like she was like, man, I was scared. It was like this, you know, and Darcy was a huge help helping her do that. What advice do you give to folks who like making that entrepreneurial leap?

Sarah Mann 13:23
You know, what’s so interesting? So I’m eight and a half years, and I did the math, right. And I historically have been incredibly risk averse. And, you know, in all truthfulness, and transparency, so much. So many of the decisions that I’ve made in life have been rooted in fear, either I was afraid to do something, or I was afraid not to do something. So I still sometimes look back and say, wow, how did they end up doing that? Because it really is about the scariest thing that I’ve done that may be getting married. And, and but but let me just also for the clarification, like both of those are the two best decisions I’ve ever made. So but you know, I got to a place and maybe people can relate to this. Okay. I got to a place where it wasn’t the right fit for a number of reasons. And the company was great. And I had phenomenal colleagues and there were aspects of it that group but for just it didn’t fit my life anymore. And so I knew that I needed to do something different and the option was either look for another job or was to try my hand at having my own business, which is something that I had always wanted to try. I think I didn’t know what I didn’t know and that made it a little bit easier. If somebody just looking at Diane’s comment, yes, my inner Sandy. I am totally gonna run with that one now. Diane. Thank you. Sandy. That is great. And and but I think I had a fallback which was you know what? I had my husband support Yeah, we had benefits. And if it didn’t work, I knew I could always just go out and get myself another row. So it just timing wise, it seemed like the right time to do it. And I think doing that going back to the PowerPoint, I didn’t realize that at the time, but I think doing that PowerPoint made me realize, okay, wait a minute, there are all of these different ways that you can make money. And I might be jumping ahead a little bit. But I networking for me is huge. And having a network and tapping into the network is huge as part of the framework curve that I think we’re going to talk about a little bit. But I had so many friends and colleagues that had gone before me. And I’m maybe the same is true for both of you, that I had one friend that sat in my kitchen for several hours and said, You need to get a separate bank account, you need to get a separate credit card. You know, if like, let’s just do some baseline numbers here. If your goal is to make 50k a year, well, that’s one project at 50k. That’s 10 5k projects, that’s 510. K, like, there’s so many different. And so with that framework, it was oh, that’s like chunking it down in a way that it’s not so scary.

Curt Anderson 16:15
Yeah, you broke it down into manageable, manageable steps. And Wesley and I know you went to, you know, similar situation where, you know, corporate and, you know, took that leap of faith. And I know you can relate to what Sarah was talking about here.

Wesleyne Greer 16:28
Absolutely. I actually had somebody who I spoke to yesterday. And she’s like, well, you know, I’m thinking about starting my own business, and how did you do it? And I, I told her just like you I had mile markers along the way. I started my business in November of one year. And I said, Okay, by the end of the year, I want to have one paying client, and I had three. And then I was like, Okay, I’ll stick to this if I can replace my income in six months, and I was able to replace it in three months. And so it’s like, I made these very specific mile markers along the way. And then I met them. And as I met them, I was like, okay, good. I can check that off. So maybe I can bet on myself. Because like you said, the fear is the biggest thing. It’s like, can I bet on myself. But I also like to tell people, not everyone is made to be an entrepreneur. Because if you need to have that check coming to you every two weeks, you need to understand that that does not always happen. And so that is something that you really, really have to understand. Right. Yeah.

Sarah Mann 17:28
And somebody said that to me up front, too. They said, the one of the things he says you need to be able to stomach fluctuating income. And I’m surprised that like, I didn’t think that I could and I can and you know,

Curt Anderson 17:39
yep. And one thing I want to just clarify real quick. So Diane says, Hey, give up your inner Sandy. So if you guys missed it, you’re like, hey, Ingress here today. Inger Happy Friday. And so she’s dropping a note. But we you know, I love to ask that opening question Who was your hero? And we never have had this answer. It was Sandy from the movie Greece. Now if you haven’t seen grease, shame on you go out and watch it this weekend. So when we talk about inner Sandy we’re talking about Sandy from Grease but we’ve got Sarah man here today, sir. Now you are leadership coach and boy, you are a powerhouse. I’ve had the honor and privilege you and I are in a little mastermind group together. We’ve been in person together and just my admiration, my respect for you off the charts. Let’s start let’s dig into some things. You work with coat what you work with things and guys checkout Sarah dot M A N N her wet.com. Her website, you love helping people achieve those big, hairy, audacious goals. Let’s go there. How do you help people help hit those big hairy audacious goals?

Sarah Mann 18:41
Yeah, that’s a big question. So if I, so if I could take a step back, lead up to that, please. So people come to coaching with all kinds of challenges, right? So they, they have impostor syndrome, or they want more confidence, or they want to build executive presence where they’ve got challenging relationships and whatnot in the workplace. So they come with all of these different goals. Or maybe they’re they’re vying for a promotion, or they’ve just been promoted. And they’re in a really big role, and they need support. Whatever it is, at the end of the day, the common theme is that they’re all looking for some type of balance and ease. Like they don’t know how to get there, here. They, you know, they’re here, they want to get to here and they’re not sure what that path is. So what I do in coaching and you know, Wesley, and I’m sure you do the same thing and your sales coaching is, you know, we help people find a path forward. And the path is different for everybody. But we tap into a framework, which is I have a leadership fluency framework that I take people through. And the balance and ease that I just referenced is the fluency. So when you think about fluency, what does that mean to you? It It’s something is second nature, it’s easy. It’s It doesn’t require a lot of thought. So what we want to do is help people get to this place where they’re not second guessing their leadership at a return. And they can show up and do the job that that that they’re in. So at a high level, Kurt, that that’s it is we, you know, there’s a framework. It’s not a prescriptive framework, everybody’s different. So we adopt that, depending upon each person’s goals and where each person is, but that’s the general approach.

Curt Anderson 20:33
I love it. Hey, we got some great guy, Alan. John. Hey, Alan. Happy Friday, my friend. We’ve got Fortune favors the brave of you got Henrietta from Ghana is here today. We’ve got Monnier says great, great conversation from Killeen got and MDs here today. So guys, thanks. Again. Earlier, somebody said about questions, boy, pop those questions, we’ll hit those as they come in. Give Sarah a big hello, connect with her on LinkedIn. So I’m gonna go here for a second you guys check out her website is phenomenal. You have some great blog posts, you have topics, you know, two vital facets to be phenomenal. Two vital facets be phenomenal. You talked about reflection and courage. Yeah, we go there for a little bit. I just I really love that article that you the blog that you put out. Can you hit on that for a minute?

Sarah Mann 21:20
Yeah, it’s so funny. I didn’t know you’re gonna ask me that. And he’s just looking at that this morning. What I so how do we want to say this? So people have different results in coaching? Yep. Like I’m sure both of you see in your business people have different level of results. And the theme that I see the people that have the most results are the people that dig in on reflection. So the coaching is great, we usually meet couple times a month, whatever it is, but the real work happens in between the coaching sessions. And people have an opportunity to try out new behaviors, adopt a different mindset, embrace a new perspective, whatever it might be, and they get to practice but then they get to reflect on that. And see, hey, like, how am I showing up? Is this making a difference? How am I feeling? Am I getting different results? Do I feel differently? So that that reflection is is huge, right?

Curt Anderson 22:26
Let’s go let’s go into courage. And I know Wessling like you know, we’ve done a ton of work together. I know like that’s an important work of word in your work in your in your world. Let’s have a little chat about courage. How do you know if you have some we’re gonna hit some testimonials that you have you you build people’s confidence. You give them courage? How do you How do you tackle that? Sir? Like, if you like, what are you looking for with folks there?

Sarah Mann 22:49
So I might reframe that a little bit. Because I actually don’t give people the courage or the confidence. So the confidence is an outcome of taking action. It’s shown it’s there’s that old book by I think it was Susan Jeffers, feel the fear and do it anyways, I had a ton of fear starting my own business. I was scared out of my wits, but I did it anyways, and the content and listen, I you know, eight and a half years in, there are still things that come up new experiences that I think, Oh, this is new. And I’m still have lack of confidence with certain situations, some days. And so you build the confidence by taking a different action. You know, I have to, and I tell clients, you have to act your way into right thinking, you take a different action and your mindset will shift. So I don’t give it to them. They build it. It’s like going to the gym and building a new muscle. But what I do do is act as a sounding board and a confidant and a cheerleader, and sometimes an ass kicker. And I mirror back and I reframed. And I asked the hard questions. And through all of that people, you know, fundamentally people have what they need to succeed that whether they believe it or not, they do. So my job isn’t to fix anybody or give them the answer. In fact, if I’m giving people the answer, I’m not doing my job. Well, I’m not living your life. I don’t know what you should do. Right? But I do believe you know what you should do deep down. So let’s pull it let’s figure it out and pull it out to you. And then people, you know, people start to have well, I’ll do a football analogy with I don’t know if either of you guys football fans. I’m not I can’t say I’m a huge football fan. But it’s such a wonderful analogy. It’s like you know, with football, you had a love you make a play, you move the ball down the field, you huddle up, you make a play, you move the ball down the field, you do that enough times you ended up in the endzone and you end up in the endzone enough times and you win the game and coaching is the same. We had a lot a couple times a month. client makes a plan they go out they make the play, they try new things. We come back we regroup did the play, work to the play, not work What do we need to know a couple months down the road? They look back and they say, Oh, wait, hey, what do you know? I’m on the 35 yard line. So, yeah.

Wesleyne Greer 25:10
Alright, so I, um, I have a question for you. These days, everybody’s just hang a shingle and call themselves a coach. Yeah. And I one of the funniest stories that I have, is a client that I previous client I worked with, when she was interviewing me. I was recommended internally. And she was like, Well, what kind of credentials do I was like, I don’t have any. She was like, Well, what kind of certification Do you have? I was like, I don’t have any. And she was like, Well, how do you do what you do? And I was like, it’s called experience. And what and like, months later months after I worked with that first client there, she was like, What is your secret? Like? How do you actually do what you do? So my question to you is twofold. The first question is when somebody is at a place, and they’re like, I need something, I don’t know what it is, but I just need some external support, because I kind of feel stuck as a leader, what are things that they should use to decide whether or not the person the coach that they’re selecting is the right coach? And then the other piece is going to be what is the secret to your success?

Sarah Mann 26:21
Okay. So on my website, there’s actually a blog post, which I forget the title of it, but it’s if you think about a coach, ask these questions. So that’s a reference for people. And I have for you know, in terms of people working with me, specifically, I have information in there that says we’re a good fit if boom, boom, boom or not, you know, if we’re not a good fit, if you’re looking for a check the box activity or you’re not looking at, you’re not interested in, you know, looking under the bed at the scary monsters and seeing what’s what’s under there, along with all the dust mites. So it’s helpful for people to understand what the coach’s approaches are, what the coach’s philosophy is, and I’ve just shared a little bit about my philosophy, which is I think, you know, the client has the answers, my job is to help support them and help them achieve their goals and pull those into a lot of them. People have different philosophies, and and I have a lot of experience as well. And so I can offer that experience. I can offer that experience in a coaching way that’s not telling somebody what they should do or giving advice. So I think it’s and my litmus test is and what I suggest to people, do you want to get stuck in an airport together? Right? Because if we can be stuck in an airport together and enjoy the company, and really have that partnership, which is probably going to go really really well.

Curt Anderson 27:56
Perfect, man. We’ve got some great comments here. So Jason drops love that idea of one client in a year. We’ve got Jr says, Happy Friday, beautiful people. Diane has another comment here. You can have an awesome coach. But if you don’t practice, reflect, make it necessary improvements, you stay in the same places where you started. Thank you, Diane, you always dropped great conversations, or we’ve got Lovis is here today. Killeen says is fear and procrastination the same? Do you want to take that one? Is fear and procrastination the same? What are your thoughts there?

Sarah Mann 28:31
I’m gonna say no. So, you know, not an academic. Maybe there’s some academic answer to this. But if I think about my own personal experience, yes, there are times when I am in fear. And I procrastinate because I am afraid. There are lots of other reasons people procrastinate, they don’t know how to speak for myself. I don’t know how to start. I’ve got something big and I just it feels overwhelming. And I don’t know how to break it down. Or I don’t have clarity. I’m not sure about what it is that I’m trying to do. And so where do I start? So I think there’s all kinds of reasons that people are I’m not, it’s just not, it’s something that needs to get done. It doesn’t feel particularly motivating. Like when I started my business, I was trying to balance my own books that was short lived. I mean, really, so listen, if anybody’s out there and you’re not in you are thinking about starting your own gig at some point. Like, you know, to Wesley’s point, it’s not for everybody, figure out what you’re good at and then get support for the things that you know, I am not a bookkeeper, right. That’s not a good use of my time. Sorry. So back to the question. So I do think that they’re different. I think that they can be interdependent the interdependence sometimes but I do think they’re different.

Curt Anderson 29:44
Perfect. Hey, Chris Harrington jumps. No great advice, Sarah love that. Sometimes I need a cheerleader. Other times I needed to kick in the rear end, how to love and move the ball forward. Excellent analogy.

Sarah Mann 29:55
Hey, Kurt, you know, just seeing a comment that Diane made. You can have it all swim coach, but if you don’t practice, reflect and make the necessary improvements, you stay in the same place. And so absolutely. And so that’s where the courage comes in. So the reflection is hey, how am I doing? Where am I? Am I making the progress that I want to make? And then the car it’s the courage to do something differently because if you keep doing what you’ve always done, you’re gonna keep getting what you’ve always got. Nothing changes, nothing changes.

Curt Anderson 30:20
I love that the reflection and courage and if you don’t, sir, if you don’t mind, I’m going to enough about Sarah. Alright. Hey, Wessling. Are you sitting down for this one? I want to share a couple of things. These, these are some of the comments. So guys, we’re at the top of the hour if you’re just coming in getting word with Sarah man, I have my co host by Slean. And I want to share one thing, a couple of things that people share about working with Sarah. So Sarah, if you don’t mind, I’m going to share this is from a gentleman that was in the Naval Academy. He’s a commanding officer. He said I own my seamless transition from the military to civilian life. Thanks to Sarah, another person, she challenged me to articulate the criteria that matters most to another person since working with Sarah my confidence is back. No other person unique style of approachability, curiosity and honesty should another person choosing Sarah was my best career investment. This is an I love this as my favorite. I’m better in my personal and professional life. Thanks to Sarah. And here’s the last one my coaching experience was with Sarah was nothing short of exceptional. Sara, curious minds want to know, What is your secret? How are you like you’re changing lives? I know you’re very humble, I probably made you very uncomfortable. And I’m glad that I did. But you are in all seriousness, you you’re executing your gifts. If you didn’t have the courage to sit down and read that PowerPoint with your husband at night while I was watching Sports Center, you want to change all these lives? How does it feel that you can make this an impact? Or what’s your what’s your secret there?

Sarah Mann 31:52
I’m gonna answer that might be a little bit of a roundabout way. But so I before I left corporate I was in what I affectionately and lovingly lovingly referred to as the cycle of doom. So there are there are just a lot of inflection points in my career, where I felt fundamentally alone, I didn’t have the support, didn’t have the resources. I didn’t have enough, I either didn’t have a network or it didn’t lean on my network. And my strategy was to double down and work harder. And so for anybody that’s done that you probably know those are diminishing returns, but you get a great return on investment on your stress level and, and challenging relationships from that place. So I was working, working working because I was I either didn’t know how to ask for help, I was afraid to ask for help. Or I was afraid if I ask for help, I was gonna look like I didn’t know what I was doing. So I just worked harder, then I became really overly self reliant. And then not long enough, and I ended up in an echo chamber for now I’m giving me advice. So that’s just really not a good place to be. And then from there, myself perceptions are flawed, because I’m just talking to myself all day. And from there, it’s really just a hop, skip and a jump from this place of feeling a part of something bigger, like a part of a community or a part of an organization to feeling apart from. And, you know, I times or just was, I just was alone, so and I thought it was just me. But that experience is what ultimately led me to the leadership fluency framework. Right? So, ship fluency framework, we talk about five anchors. So it’s a concept to put your own oxygen mask on first, right? And build a strong foundation. One identity, who do you want to be as a leader? Doesn’t matter if you’re self employed, you’re in an organization, whatever, who do you want to be? Values? What do you stand for value? If you haven’t done a values exercise, highly, highly recommend it for people because values provide really great guardrails, guardrails and they help people understand how to how to interact with us. wellbeing, mental, physical, spiritual, emotional, financial well being hugely important. Connection, I talked about network so how are you tapping into your internal network, your external network, to not only help you achieve your goals, but also just life enrichment and fulfillment? Right. And surgeons that Surgeon General says that we have a loneliness epidemic, one in two adults has experienced loneliness and you know what, when you experience loneliness, you’re no big surprise. You’re at greater risk for anxiety and depression but you’re also at greater risk for heart disease, stroke, dementia and premature death. So I’m the uplifting This is the uplifting part of the program today. So I

Curt Anderson 34:57
was here last night was hair loss on that list. Sarah wasn’t I wasn’t sure.

Sarah Mann 35:02
And then. And then the last one is neuro agility. So listen, life throws curveballs. And how resilient Are you in the face of adversity? And how well do you handle challenges? And all of those things, in my experience come in play in with work together doesn’t matter. It’s your own organization, you’re part of a really big company, you’re part of a small company. All of those things come into play. So back to the question, how do you? How do you help people? We go through that framework. And again, it’s not prescriptive, and everybody’s different. But that’s the answer.

Curt Anderson 35:36
I love Hey, are Darcy’s in the house Darcy? We’ve got and Henrietta, if I’m saying that correctly. Thank you for joining us today, sir. I think I like you already. Fulfilling and Darcy comes back. smartest people have the hardest time asking for help. When is so true. We think we should all know all the answers. It’s hard being vulnerable, in that I want it for friends, taking notes, and backyard clean. Thank you again for joining us clean. He says Thanks for the answer. Guys. We’re here with Sarah, man, please drop your comments, drop your questions and boy, connect with Sarah on LinkedIn, follow her go to her website, as she mentioned, great blog posts all sorts of wonderful information. There’s a little tool, I dropped that in the chat box, the link there. So I’m going to recap. Let’s recap the five just for friends taking notes. So number one identity, I have that correct? Its identity.

Sarah Mann 36:30
It’s identity. And what I mean by that is, who do you want to be? So a lot of times people will say, Well, what should I do? Now? Who do you want to be figure that out first, because when you know who you want to be, then figuring out what you should do is much easier. So if you want to be someone who is a if you want to be a poised leader, and you want to show up with gravitas and presence? Well, what then use that as your reference point, what does someone who has gravitas do? That’s identity?

Wesleyne Greer 37:05
So can you help us because many times people are like, well, I want to be this person, I want to be like this, but they don’t even. So I find that this falls kinda into banks, either people think way too small, or they think way too, kind of like not even in the realm of spec of what they can do. How do people really understand like, great question, I don’t know who I want to be, maybe they don’t have that. Or maybe they’re there, they have unrealistic expectation of who they can be?

Sarah Mann 37:38
I think that’s a great question. My experience is that it’s usually the former, that they don’t believe that they can be more than they are. And so then I go back to that football analogy, which is, so with if I take a step back, so when we, when we’re talking about coaching, we’re looking at to two domains. One is enter domain. So what’s my self concept? What are my beliefs, my assumptions, my mindsets? And then the other is outer. What are my actions, behaviors words, I guess actions and behaviors? Technically the same thing? But so what are people’s experience of me, right? And so you couple those two things together, and that really determines your impact. So when we start to dig in, with clients on mindset, self concept, how do you see yourself what what limiting beliefs you hold about yourself, and they start to do things differently, then they start to build that confidence and they see that they can be more or do more, and then they can hold on to a higher or bigger vision. And that was one of the thing that has just gone off the brain. So okay,

Curt Anderson 38:49
what I mean is, you know, we have So Sarah, I don’t know if you know like on our show, we had like these little moments of silence. So this is just such a powerful. Yeah, we’ve had multiple multiple mic drops we’ve gotten check out these chat bots is on fire, such great advisor value exercise is so important. Darcy jumped another great comment, you know, great conversation. I love Sara’s framework. Diane, you’re hitting right on the head, guys, if you just came in, or maybe like, Sarah hit us hard and heavy. Come back replay this, hit the rewind button and you want to take notes on and she’s dropping some truth bombs here. Great question here from Killeen or comment here from Queens.

Sarah Mann 39:30
Brian, too. So I think that’s a really important point because going back to what I said early on, not to fix anybody. So the so the folks that have better results are the ones that take ownership and accountability for their learning. The ones that show up and expect that I’m going to tell them what to do. Don’t have as you know, the struggle a little bit more. It takes a little bit bit longer to get to the place that they that they want to get. So the onus is really the onus for learning and developing and doing something different is on them with me as a part, a full partner, and a cheerleader, and all of that. Okay,

Wesleyne Greer 40:14
I love saying, the best client who like Who’s your ideal client? Do you have the propensity to change? If you don’t have the propensity to change, then we’re in our this, we’re not a good fit. But if you do, and it’s like that fixed mindset versus that growth mindset, like I am willing to do the work. I know, it’s gonna be hard, but I want to achieve something different.

Sarah Mann 40:34
Yep. Yeah, and I don’t know Westland as a coach. I don’t know if you experienced this or not. But I have so many clients at the end, when we’re talking, they say, that was really different than what I thought it was going to be. I thought it was going to show up, and you were going to tell me what to do. But it’s so much better. And you opened up avenues for me that I did not know existed,

Wesleyne Greer 40:56
like help, really, I think that in coaching, and I have a very strong philosophy against I call it Training in a vacuum, because a lot of people, especially in the sales space, they just do sales training, and then they run away and they’re gone. But if you just do sales training, stick people in a room for eight hours, and then say, Okay, you guys are fixed. But don’t follow it up with ongoing coaching than the true change doesn’t happen. And so that in the coaching, whether it’s small group or individual one on one, it’s people get to challenge their ideas, their beliefs, the things that have been holding them back, and you get to dig deep, and want to get deep, and it’s like, the whole world just opens

Sarah Mann 41:30
up for them. Yes, yeah. And that goes back to something Kurt said earlier about the vulnerability. So I think many of us grew up, like vulnerability was bad. And it’s, it’s the opposite. So when clients show up and they’re willing to do the work, and they’re willing to be vulnerable, like magic happens, man, that’s awesome, man.

Curt Anderson 41:51
You know what, thank you for leaving corporate Sarah. So just, you know, those are the people that are just benefiting. I know, just I’ll speak for myself, just you know, how much benefit you’re just dropping today is just phenomenal. You know, not, don’t ask what you want to do. What do you want to be like? That was a total mind blowing? Question right there. So just again, recap that identity. I love when you’re talking about put on your oxygen mask first. I love when you talk about that. Number two, you said values. Number three worldbeat. Well being number four, connection, your network five, the resiliency and agility. I know I want to be totally mindful of your time today. I know you’re super busy. Any of those any other things that you want to dig into those five? I’d love to go through each one again. But is there anything that you want to really hit home with for folks today?

Sarah Mann 42:40
I think well, there’s so much that we could add to your I think the ones that tend to come up the most in coaching that people get the most bang for the buck, if you will. Well, all of them, I guess, but one is wellbeing. So that we are especially in a sense, COVID, and the world of work has changed and people are tired, and especially women, and many women are conditioned to put everybody else first. And so it’s this reprioritization of self, which is the oxygen mask so that you can show up better for colleagues, for family, for your team, whatever that might be. So well being is huge connection, I think. Going back to my cycle of doom, I certainly underestimated for many years, the importance of a network. And it’s not just when you’re looking for a job. I could pontificate for a very long time about all the reasons why we need, why we need people in our lives. So that’s a big one. And then mindset. A lot of clients haven’t thought about mindset much before coming into coaching, and we do some exercises, some that are grounded in neuroscience that at the end, clients almost always come back and say that’s the thing that had the most impact is because now I know I can approach the situation from above the line or below the line. And that’s a game changer. So yeah. All right.

Curt Anderson 44:23
How about this trick? There’s so many mic drop moments training should should move to coaching my trap. I just want to pull up one more guys. Thank you for all your comments. I trying to get as many as I can. I have the issue myself. I hate to admit that sometimes I pretend I’m someone else in order to help myself, Brian, thank you for sharing your comments. What’s that? I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to chime in. But go ahead. No,

Wesleyne Greer 44:46
no problem. I agree that the mindset work is the thing that a lot of leaders are missing. They it all starts up here. Whether you’re an HR leader or you’re a sales leader or a marketing leader, if your mind isn’t in the game. If you have all this baggage that you’re carrying from your personal life or from childhood or for wet from wherever it impacts what you do and how you show up. And so first starting with mindset and focusing on those things that I too have found is what people are like, this is why you’re different. This is why your program is better than what’s out there. Yep. Hey, Zeus.

Curt Anderson 45:25
Who’s this guy? So? Damon, dude, like,

I’ve been listening. I’ve been listening. Oh, my goodness, my

Curt Anderson 45:36
brother meeting a little bit early, and I’m like, oh, man, I gotta go. I don’t I don’t even have words. I just want I’m gonna pull up one more comment here. We’ve got Sarah, if you’re ever back in gym class picking players, please pick me today. You know what? I know, Sarah, I know you were coming into home. So just you know, before we wind down. Thank you. Like, I can express my gratitude to you. I have like tons of notes. I know everybody in the chat box. Tons of notes. If you know what, guys, if you’ve been sitting around, you know, just absorbing other brilliance from Sarah, I encourage you welcome you invite you if you want to, like great time to stretch stand up? And how about we give Sarah a huge standing ovation for just absolutely hitting the ball out of park. And I was saying I don’t want you I just I had chills, like through half of this program that this was so good. Sir. Take us home. Any last word last thoughts do you want to share with everybody?

Sarah Mann 46:31
So a couple things. So first of all, I’m just seeing that Colleen has a question.

Curt Anderson 46:35
I missed your question. I’m sorry. Worries. Yeah,

Sarah Mann 46:37
I know, it’s me who has to start and find my identity, then we all need mentors to reach our desired destination. Do you agree? Yeah. And so there is, you know, I definitely make a distinction between a consultant, a mentor, a therapist and a coach, those are all four different roles. And but certainly mentor or coach or, you know, really any of them in different ways can can support I going back to that connection piece. I don’t think that let me say I’ll say for myself operating in a vacuum. Almost did me that that did not support my career growth. So yes, I do think. And there was one other question from the very well, from trog. How can leaders balance the need for stability and consistency with the need for innovation and change in a dynamic business landscape? And that’s a really big, like that question is bigger than a breadbox. And I go for me, like if we had more time I go back to identity. Who do you like? Who do you want to be? What kind of leader do you want to be? What that what do you want to espouse? What qualities do you want to espouse? How what do you want people’s experience of you to be? And you know, what are your values? And how are you honoring those values? And so I would probably use that as a starting place for trying to answer that question.

Curt Anderson 48:07
Well, that was perfect. Hey, we get Alan, our friend Alan, thank you. He gives a Bravo we have a thanks from Killeen, Wesleyan, what takeaways, what are your thoughts of today’s little jam session?

Wesleyne Greer 48:19
I think I really liked I’d like to framework right my recovering chemists brain I like frameworks. And so I like that, you know, there are certain things that as leaders you have to focus on in order to get from where you are to where you need to be and at the end of the day, a lot of people were like I just want to skip to the steps like when I’m working with them I like but I just want to know how we can make more money and I’m like, but your mind is jacked up and if you don’t fix your mind first you’re never gonna make more money. So let’s fit to your mindset first, and they’re like okay, and I think it’s the same thing that you really stated this like we have to do the work in order to get the results

Curt Anderson 48:58
Yeah, you know, work takeaways you know resiliency reflection courage guys again, please go back if you’re catching us on replay just you know connect with Sarah on her website tons of information Sarah with an H dash N A N N. Sir. Here’s my last question for you. Are you ready?

Sarah Mann 49:17
I’m gonna try to be ready.

Curt Anderson 49:19
You’re ready last question. We’re gonna let you go because I know you’ve got to run. Now Daymond I’m not going to do baseball because you know what she’s talking to football today you missed it. She you know, we’re all

Sarah Mann 49:28
preseason yet. You know, you’re

Curt Anderson 49:32
mentioning football and like getting things into the endzone. So here’s a hypothetical are you’re in New England gal. Are you a Patriots fan? Maybe? I like to watch football. Okay, so let’s just say you’re a Patriots fan. It’s you’re done by one point. Okay, you’re down by one point. There’s three seconds left in the game, playing your arch rival your most hated team of all time, and they need a field goal. And lo and behold, like you’re the field goal kicker who knew that right sir kicks whistling Did you know Sarah kicks field goals. And so the coach As hate Sara man get out there and kick the game winning field goal is they call you out to go kick the game winning field goal. What’s your walk up song? What song do you need on the loudspeaker for you to hit that field goal?

Sarah Mann 50:14
Well, I’m gonna this is just so embarrassing. I really wish

we go back to Greece, we go

Wesleyne Greer 50:26
back where we started. What’s

Sarah Mann 50:31
your the one that I want?

Curt Anderson 50:32
You’re the one that I so Damon, I asked who is your hero? I asked her who was her hero. It was Sandy. And Olivia Newton John from the movie Grease man, best aunt when the best answers of all time. And so I know we’re coming into time. So any last words and he was part with

Sarah Mann 50:50
us. So a couple things. One is I think you put something in, you put a link in the chat. So if people want to click on that link, you can download a copy of the leadership fluency framework. And there’s also a quick exercise you can do, went through with it went through it with a client just yesterday. And it was enlightening. Let’s just say that creates awareness and helps the client figure out where she needed to focus next. So that’s available. If you go to my website and things just scroll, no top of the website. On the right hand side. If you click sign up, you can get on the newsletter. So I send a weekly newsletter. My goal is always actionable commentary and not spam, and I’m not selling your name or anything like that. And if you scroll all the way down to the homepage, there’s an executive presence quiz. Nice. So three ways that if someone wanted to if someone saying well, how can I increase my leadership fluency today? Those are three pretty quick and easy ways that you can check out the blog because I’ve got all kinds of stuff on the blog, check

Curt Anderson 51:53
out the blog, you know, another one eight and a half lessons from self improve self employment, or leadership lessons from open mic night. So guys, you know, check out Sarah’s blog. Let’s wind down everybody in the chat box. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We appreciate you week in and week out. And just you know, it’s it’s our honor and privilege bringing just amazing people like Sarah Wessling Thank you, my friend. You’re such a blessing to me. Appreciate you filling in Damon Better late than never brother. Appreciate you being here. So, hey, on Monday, we have great our guests. So all four of you, our guests. It’s a it’s a married couple, and we’ve never done this before the topic is how to thrive in business and in marriage. That’s our conversation. It’s a really fun, it’s Amber and Tim Wellborn. So again, guys, thank you. Appreciate you. God bless, Sarah. Thank you. Thank you, my friend. Hang out with us for one second. And guys have a great weekend.

Bye. Bye. Thanks, everyone.

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