Unlocking Business Growth Potential

In this, The Faces of Business, Dr. Jean Oursler, The Results Queen®, CEO, The BrainTree Group, Inc Group Inc., talks about unlocking business growth potential so you can achieve greater business success. The BrainTree Group Inc. specializes in helping businesses optimize their operations and drive growth.

In this, The Faces of Business, Dr. Jean Oursler, The Results Queen®, CEO, The BrainTree Group, Inc Group Inc., talks about unlocking business growth potential so you can achieve greater business success. The BrainTree Group Inc. specializes in helping businesses optimize their operations and drive growth.

With over twenty-five years of experience in executive leadership, management consulting, and organizational development, Dr. Jean has knowledge that helps leaders grow their businesses faster.

Dr. Jean’s extensive background in business strategy, human resources, and change management has made her a sought-after advisor to organizations in various industries, including healthcare, finance, and technology.

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In addition to her consulting work, Dr. Jean is an experienced business coach and sales trainer, publishing numerous articles and books on business leadership and growth. She has been a featured speaker at conferences and events worldwide.

Get ready to learn Dr. Jean’s actionable insights and strategies to unlock your business’s full growth potential and take your organization to the next level.

Damon warmly welcomes Dr. Jean to his show and asks her to discuss her background. The guest reveals that Dr. Jean Oursler’s journey is rooted in a commitment to achieving results and serving others. From her early days, she embraced the concept of unlocking potential. This drive led her to excel in corporate America and create her role in new employee orientation. Her distinct ability to see things differently and offer unique perspectives set her apart. This passion continues to shape her successful career, dedicated to empowering others to reach their full potential.

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Similarly, Dr. Jean Oursler adds that she has a Ph.D. in business psychology. Her journey began by creating her role in human resources, focused on training and development. Her innovative presentation led to a corporate university. A master’s in organizational development followed, enhancing her skills. Driven by her passion, she achieved a Ph.D., enabling her to provide unique solutions to unleash hidden potential.

Damon recalls a concept from “The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People” – a third alternative encompassing different viewpoints. He connected this to the notion that everyone can be right in their perspective. In the same breath, the host addresses Dr. Jean’s expertise in business psychology and her terming her concept of the “caveman brain.”

Dr. Jean says that she recognizes the challenges entrepreneurs face daily. She enlisted multiple coaches, including a Harvard Business neuroscientist, Dr. Bach. He shed light on the amygdala, what people often call the “lizard brain,” which triggers fight, flight, or freeze responses. Discovering the amygdala’s role in her struggles, she collaborated with Dr. Bach to develop a program altering neurological pathways to change behavior.

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To simplify its concept due to dyslexia and ADHD, she coined it “caveman brain.” She introduced the idea to friends and clients, and even created the “Caveman Brain Business Growth System.” This approach helps entrepreneurs figure out and leverage their mental processes to overcome challenges and propel their businesses forward.

Focusing on leadership, Damon asks Dr. Jean where individuals often have “aha” realizations about the influence of the caveman’s brain on their leadership approaches.

Dr. Jean explains that the concept of the caveman brain has a broad reach, extending across different aspects of life, including leadership, sales, and personal matters. The foundation of the caveman brain arises from four sources: childhood, parental influence, cultural upbringing, and life experiences. A good understanding of these origins allows individuals to analyze how these factors impact their current actions. For instance, she provides an example of someone who, due to past experiences, always sought perfection and questioned missing points. When this pattern carries into leadership, it can unintentionally demotivate team members who desire positive feedback.

Similarly, Dr. Jean elaborates on how the notion of “Idle Hands Devil’s Heart” can impact work culture, pushing for constant effort and striving for more. She highlights the importance of recognizing the influence of the caveman brain in such behaviors. Without this awareness, these tendencies can hinder success and productivity in the workplace.

Developing her argument, Dr. Jean Oursler enlightens how childhood experiences shape individuals’ behavior. She illustrates this with a client who felt judged for her appearance as a child, which now affects her confidence in sales situations.

Another client’s experience playing the clarinet, akin to sucking a wooden spoon, led him to excel in baseball to fit in with friends. However, he deliberately made mistakes to maintain their friendship. She prompts consideration of the potential for greater success and happiness through self-awareness and change.

Agreeing with the guest, Damon underscores the value of self-reflection, realizing that earlier recognition of these influences, as explored through the caveman brain concept, can lead to personal growth and a more fulfilled life.
Dr. Jean observes the power of seeking guidance and coaching early in life. She believes that young individuals who invest in coaching achieve remarkable success. Similarly, she encourages the idea of embracing multiple viewpoints for success. She compares this approach to athletes who have multiple coaches to excel in their fields.

She underscores the importance of continuous learning, referencing Bill Gates’ habit of reading three hours daily, and suggests that we must read and learn for greater success.

Coupled with personal development, she advocates for a holistic life approach, particularly evident with the pandemic’s impact and the emergence of Generation Z. She contrasts feedback tendencies between baby boomers, millennials, and Generation Z, highlighting how the latter group often gives higher ratings to motivate improvement. This reflects the influence of the caveman brain, where younger generations seek constant progression by aiming for a perfect score. This dynamic can lead to different perspectives between leaders and workers, emphasizing the need for awareness and understanding of these underlying behavioral patterns.

Damon, deeply impressed with Dr. Jean’s holistic approach, discusses the strategic perspective of a business owner, mentioning the potential of a hybrid model to tap into a global talent pool and maximize teamwork.
As the Livestream progresses, the guest shares her experience of successfully managing a virtual company for a decade and acknowledges the potential for developing a leadership program. She agrees with Damon’s viewpoint on the benefits of the hybrid model and emphasizes that virtual work offers considerable advantages, accounting for 80% of efficiency.

Dr. Jean supports adapting to the changing landscape of the pandemic and hybrid working, expressing skepticism about the necessity of a full-time return to the office, particularly for financial and psychological reasons. She suggests reconsidering the use of office space for more effective purposes.

Steering the conversation back to the cave brain, Damon asks Dr. Jean to talk about challenges related to self-awareness when applying the said concept to assist companies and leaders.

In response, Dr. Jean says many people lack self-awareness and often create stories in their minds that aren’t based on reality. She argues to introspect and seek feedback, suggesting tools like the Clifton StrengthsFinder assessment. She mentions a colleague’s term “Chuckles the Clown,” referring to individuals who give weight to threats.

Damon agrees that the caveman brain can exaggerate threats, even if they are far from reality.
Dr. Jean’s clients often report increased confidence as a significant outcome of working on their caveman brain. She explains that the caveman brain can generate fears, including fear of success. Overcoming these fears and gaining confidence leads to greater success and the ability to handle challenges, contributing to a more fulfilling and successful life.

Furthermore, Dr. Jean mentions that another positive outcome of working on the caveman brain is calming the inner voice and taming negative thoughts. She explains how acknowledging the brain’s protective nature and redirecting it toward positive thoughts can help create a more constructive mindset.

Damon appreciates Dr. Jean’s approach that everyone deals with the caveman brain to some extent.

The show ends with Damon thanking Dr. Jean for her precious time and actionable tips.

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42:52
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
caveman, brain, work, people, good, give, leaders, company, thought, leadership, learn, business, coach, clients, figure, read, talk, points, bach, call
SPEAKERS
Dr Jean Oursler, Damon Pistulka

Damon Pistulka 00:00
All right, everyone, welcome once again to the faces business. I’m your host, Damon Pistulka. And I cannot contain my excitement. Because I am speaking today with none other than Dr. Jean Oursler the results queen, we’re gonna be talking about caveman brain, we’re gonna be talking about unlocking business growth potential. Dr. Gene, thanks for being here today.

Dr Jean Oursler 00:28
Oh, Damien, thank you so much. I’m super excited. I’m like, already grooving to the music. And I’m raising the house. So let’s, let’s get going.

Damon Pistulka 00:35
Let’s do this. Let’s do this. So, Dr. Gene, we always like to start out the show the same? Because we really want to understand how you got into helping people unlock their business girls potential, what was it that started out how you started out, and then how you got here?

Dr Jean Oursler 01:03
Oh, I’ve always have believed in getting an outcome. And I always believed in getting results, I was raised that way. And I was also raised that you are here to help others, we serve others. So in growing up in that mentality, I have used those two things, to work with lots of business owners to unlock their potential. And I think this is really the fun thing. So when I started in corporate America, I eventually created my own job. And I was doing new employee orientation. And I always wanted to learn about the new people. And then I always wanted to help them grow. And once I mean, I always could see things different from an HR point of view, I can always see things different or differently than other people could. So it was always finding the different newness for people. So if you saw this way, I would give you a total opposite viewpoint. And I thought was super fascinating. And people were like, I never thought of things like that. And I could never define that. Like, I always thought to myself, how do you define that unique ability to do it, but I can see things that other people can’t, to help people be much more successful. And once I see that, I feel the need to make it happen. And that’s how I got to where I am today sort of speak. So using my two unique feelings for my childhood, I built a wonderful career and business in helping business owners unlock their potential.

Damon Pistulka 02:47
Nice, nice. So you really I mean, you prepared for this though, because you’ve got you’ve got a doctor in psychology is at it a PhD in business, PhD in business psycho. I came say it, right?

Dr Jean Oursler 03:04
Yes, I have a PhD in business psychology. So once I created my own job in human resources, I and again, it was really to help people and the potential. So I was a frontline worker, the sister in law’s working in a family owned business, a sister in law was doing comps and benefits. But no one was helping anyone to find people or train them or Yeah, and I thought there’s a way to make this happen. So I created a 50 page presentation deck, each idea on one page with a return on investment, sold it so to speak to the president of the company, he said to me, I’ll give you six months, if it doesn’t work, you can go back to your job. And I got a master’s degree in organizational development, and use that to really grow an organization and we literally did everything we did a corporate university. I mean, like everything they can imagine. Wow, yep. And then I wanted to get a PhD because I thought it’d be really cool again to help people with the potential. But it took me a little while to do that I had children in between. And then I decided to go back to school and I got my PhD in business psychology, it was just a bucket list thing that I’ve always wanted to do. And you can’t get any better than having a PhD. It’s, it’s a really, it’s changed my life. And I would recommend anyone to do it. But it’ll edit allows you to see things again, from different points of view, that to unlock potential that most people never say. That’s why I have a PhD in business psychology. I’m your therapist that you tell me everything and then I help you figure out how to fix it.

Damon Pistulka 04:35
Very cool. Very cool. So yeah, because you’re speaking about perspective, and I think perspective is so important. And it’s it’s one of the things that you can help as an outside person coming into many businesses. Is that different viewpoint as you said, it’s it’s so critical because we’re oftentimes in business. So and in golf and everything right in front of us trying to get this thing done that we can step back and look at it from maybe even a completely different perspective out in the world, that and that’s awesome that you’re able to do that. And that you were able to get a PhD in business psychology to help other people. That’s incredible.

Dr Jean Oursler 05:20
Yeah. And I think the other thing to really think about when you’re thinking about other people’s perspectives is that everyone can be, everyone can be right. And everyone can be right, and everyone’s there to help the company grow. And if you can all get on the same page that we all can be right. And we can all and we’re all here to help the company. It the you align people around those two things, and your company will take off.

Damon Pistulka 05:46
Yeah. You know, many years ago, when I read The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, there’s always one thing that’s ever it’s for ever stuck in my mind is that third alternative and when you talk about everyone being right, I think of that because there are so many times we look at someone you look at something I look at someone they say no, it’s this No, it’s that. But really, that that other alternative is out there, wherever one is, right. And those are the solutions that just, they’re just killer, that it that it incorporates all the good things in and really negates a lot of the possibilities and the bad. So good stuff. Good stuff. So PhD in business psychology, you come up with something called the caveman brain. I mean, I saw see those two things kind of lining up. But you know, so So what, what really brought you to the point that you’re like, hey, I want to figure out this thing. And then I want to name it. So what I want to go back to the situation where you said, I got this problem, and I need to figure it out. So let’s go there.

Dr Jean Oursler 07:04
Well, so I’ve been a business owner for a long period of time. And it’s also one of the reasons why I think I’m a very good at my job is because I am a business owner. So I know what business owners go through every single day. And one period of time, I was not doing very well. I was not growing, I was not selling I was not leading I was not I was not I was not that was just I was not not, I was not right. And as business owners, I think we all hit that ceiling of and I was not. So I truly believe in coaching. I’ve had my own coach, since I’ve opened up my company. I’ve had different coaches along the way. So I thought to myself, I’m gonna hire a coach to help me. And I already had a coach, I’m like, so I’m gonna hire second coach to help me. And then I hired a third coach to help me. And then I hired a fourth coach to help me. So I had four coaches at the same time helping me with my I’m not doing so well. One of them happened to be a Harvard Business, Harvard Business neuroscientist, and it was Dr. Bach and Dr. Bach and I had some very interesting conversations, because he’s like, there’s nothing wrong with your skill set. And there’s nothing wrong with your toolset. The reality is, is that there’s something wrong with your brain. And it’s wrong with your mindset. And I was like, really? And he’s like, yes. So we talked a lot about what’s called the amygdala. And that that’s a an almond shaped part of your brain sits at the back, people call it lizard brain. And it’s the idea that the whole responsibility like its whole job is to make sure that you don’t die. So it costs it scans the horizon, looking for danger only knows what it sees and what it hears. And based on that it floods your body with chemicals to make you either fight flight or freeze. So I was frozen, which is why I wasn’t I wasn’t knotting you know, I was I was frozen. And once I learned from Dr. Bach about the Miglia and what was impacting me, and we talked about how to unlock it because Dr. Bach has created a whole program to change behavior, or by changing the neurological pathways in your brain. And I thought this is super awesome. The challenge is I can’t say muglia I have dyslexia and I also have ADHD. So between those two things immediately, all the times it really, it’s hard. And I so I thought I’m just going to call a caveman brain. So I just had caveman brain. And I would go around in my belly heard about caveman brain. My friends heard about caveman brain. Clients would hear about caveman brain. They would ask me about it, I would teach them because I truly believe that what I learned I should teach next, you know, it’s like, can you teach caveman brain to my company? Like, how does that impact me as a leader? How does that impact me as in sales? How does it affect me man? management. So, you know, now I have caveman brain business growth system because I developed caveman brain. And once literally this morning, I was doing a presentation about how urgency is killing your business all because of how we think, in our brain. And the fact is that once you understand your caveman brain and how it is either helping you or hurting you, you can then harness that to propel yourself forward. And that’s how caveman brain came to be.

Damon Pistulka 10:30
That’s cool. Cool. So out of a problem in your for coaches. Yeah, yeah. Dr. Bach helps you figure out the caveman brain syndrome. So as you’ve been going down the road now helping people understand their caveman brains, what are some of the things that you see that that are really aha moments for people when they when they when you start to talk to them about this? And so So let’s, let’s start talking about leadership. I mean, because we’re going to talk about a few different areas of business because you brought it up, you said leadership, sales, and, and even personal life. So let’s, let’s talk about leadership, where do you see the caveman brain where people go, Aha, I see this and in how it’s affecting my leadership.

Dr Jean Oursler 11:25
So if I may, I would like to get the premise of caveman brain so that how it expands everywhere. And once you understand these four places, then you’ll understand and leadership and sales and personal life, if I may. So keep in mind brain actually comes from four places, it comes from your childhood, it comes from your parents, it comes from your culture, and it comes from your life experience. So when you realize those four places, and that’s where all of your caveman brain comes from, then you can start to figure out how those four areas are impacting what you’re doing today. So for example, I get a lot of this. I brought home a task to my parents, mom, dad, both whatever that might be. And I got a 97. And they asked me where the other three points were. In fact, they’re always asking, are they always asking me where the other three points were? So and now fast forward as a leader, right? You’re saying to your staff, where’s the other three points? And they’re thinking to themselves, I work to 97%? That’s pretty freakin good. Don’t you think you should say something good to me and give me some positive feedback? And meanwhile, I’m smacking you on the nose? Because yeah.

Damon Pistulka 12:35
Yeah. Right. Great Apple,

Dr Jean Oursler 12:41
that often. And when I say that to people, people, like, oh, I have that or my brother had that, like, I can I can relate to that. Right? So parents have a have a thing I culture. So I often talk about myself, because I’m a Protestant. So I grew up in Protestant work ethic. And when I say that the prizes are like, Oh, I know what that means. Which is basically idle hands Devil’s heart, meaning that if you’re not busy all the time, something bad, you’re going to do something bad. Well, the challenge and again, we’ll go with leadership is that if you’re working yourself to death, so to speak, your brain becomes tired, we have burnout, your brain actually needs time, to recover, to rest and recover. And we can do that in a variety of ways. I know that Damon, you and I talked about you taking these long walks with the tide out with the puppy, like that’s allowing your brain to rest. And if you look at elite athletes, elite athletes don’t keep going forever, they take time to rest and recover. We don’t do that in work. We just keep going, going, going, going going. And if you don’t rest and recover then eventually stress burnout permit stress, things like that happen. So the fact is that for me once I learned that I could not be idle hands Devil’s heart anymore, that it was okay to rest. Like and I said this to you, I went and saw movies, you know, all day that it was okay to sit and do that. That was a different way of thinking than how I had been brought up. So again, in thinking about leadership, if are you making your people like, I just this was such a good example. So today in the speeches, I was giving one of the leaders raise their hand, he says, Why can’t my people just do one more thing before they walk out the door? And I’m like, really?

Damon Pistulka 14:33
That was it? Three points right there.

Dr Jean Oursler 14:36
Idle. Devil’s heart, right. Like they just need to be working a little bit harder. Right. Now, that could be the three points but it also gonna be like they’re just not working harder. Now. I can’t work a little harder. Like they they accomplished everything that was great, but could they just work a little harder? Okay. So again, and if we aren’t aware of caveman brain and how it shows up up, because a lot of this just seems very typical in our workplace, then our people we just it holds us back from being successful. Yeah. So. So that’s, that’s, I can give you on the other two. Are you? Are you? Yes,

Damon Pistulka 15:15
I do. Yes, I

Dr Jean Oursler 15:16
do. It’s cool. So, so, so I talked about childhood. So I have a client who talks about the fact that she felt that she was fat as a kid. So and that people bullied her as a kid around her fatness. So and went for now, when she walks into a room as a salesperson, she always feels that people are judging her and how she looks before she even opens her mouth in the sale. Right. So imagine how that all interacts when you walk into the room of a fortune 500 company, to you know, the the CEO, and they’re like, Hey, I’m here to pitch a product to you, and you’re worried about how people are judging you. And that comes from childhood. So again, something to work and get through. All right, this one is this one I feel the sadness about. And this is one another one of our clients is a financial adviser. And he tells me the story then it’s from his life experiences. So he said, Jean, my parents made me play the clarinet. Have you ever played the clarinet? I said, No, he goes, it’s like sucking on a wooden spoon. Well, I kind of think about ooh, that’s icky. Yeah, right. Can you imagine what that looks like? So I said, So in high school, I rebelled, threw away my clarinet, and then went out for baseball. Because I really liked baseball, I said, and all my friends were playing baseball, my best friend was the first bass part and basement. So I thought it’d be really cool to be on the team with him. So but what happened was, is that I was so good at baseball, that the coach replaced my best friend with me on on first base. And he’s like, an, I was super happy, and my best friend was not. And he said, and I started to realize that this was really impacting our relationship. So he said, so I started to make mistakes and make errors on purpose. And eventually, the coach replaced me with my best friend. But the problem was, is that my best friend, and the rest of my friends decide not to be my friends anymore. So he said, when I go through life, I am usually really good, like, I’m the best one in the room. But then I make sure that I’m dumbing it down or making mistakes or doing things that people don’t see, because I want to make sure that everyone still likes me. And that he’s lived his whole life that way. Wow. Yeah, I mean, just so when you think about where things come from parents, childhood culture, life experiences, that’s a life experience that he’s been living with that. Imagine if he hadn’t done that, and how much more successful he could be? How much happier he could be. Yeah. So when that makes sense?

Damon Pistulka 17:45
Yeah, that that’s too bad. A lot of Miss life there.

Dr Jean Oursler 17:52
Yeah. Right. And so when you talk about unlocking the potential, you know, how much life are you missing? Because your caveman brain is controlling how you think, and, and making you react in a certain way, when it may not even be real?

Damon Pistulka 18:06
Yeah. Yeah. The thing, one thing, when you talk about, we talk about life, he talks about childhood and parents and culture and everything. I, you know, I’ve got a couple years on me. But you get to a certain point and you realize that a, there’s, there’s no way I’m going to be perfect, right? I’m just not going to be there’s going to be that. And you look back at your life, and you realize that your parents, which we grew up, thinking, you know, our our parents just don’t make mistakes, right. But you look back at your parents than you think about how they grew up and their their families and everything. And you see this, how you turned out in some respects the way you did like, like some of these descriptions of these situations you’ve described. And you really begin to think, as, as you’re talking about now, with going through the things with the caveman brain here is, to me, almost the earlier we can figure these things out in our lives, the better off we’re gonna be.

Dr Jean Oursler 19:16
I had a colleague who said to me show a 20 year old or 30 year old who has a coach, and I will show you someone who’s so successful, they’re off the charts, because most people don’t hire a coach until their 40s or 50s. Or 60s. Yeah. To myself. Oh, okay. There. Yeah. Yeah. Because we just think when we’re young, we think we know it all. And we know that we’re doing and we don’t really need help, but I do myself, and I can do it and show it to you. But the reality is, is that the more help you ask for, it’s not a bad thing. The more viewpoints you see, the more successful you’ll be. So why not help hire a coach and just talk about like, pick your favorite athlete And how old are they? And have they had a coach? And they probably have four or five to do their job really well? Why can’t you have four or five? Yeah, and whoever that might be, maybe it’s not a coach, maybe it’s a therapist or to an accountability partner or a mastermind group. But the more that you invest in learning and growing, the more successful you will be. Bill Gates reads three hours a day, for goodness sakes. I realize he hates but he’s still reading three hours. There’s research that says most people don’t pick up a book after they leave school.

Damon Pistulka 20:30
Yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah, that’s, that’s it myself. Personally, I did that in the middle part of my career. I didn’t read hardly anything. And then you then you start reading again. You’re like, what the heck? Where was my brain? It was just park someplace.

Dr Jean Oursler 20:51
Yeah, exactly. And I tell this to people is that I read a tremendous amount. And I read what I read in People Magazine, I can put with a Harvard Business Review article and come up with something brilliant for my company, or for my clients. It can come from anywhere. Lots of great ideas, reading People Magazine, like, oh, wow, we should do that.

Damon Pistulka 21:13
Nice. Yeah, there’s so I mean, because life’s life, I mean, we’re all gonna have in different aspects are all there. And they all play together. That’s the other thing that that it’s, it’s, well, you’re showing it and talking about childhood and life and culture and all the things that happened. And we, we for many years, many, many, many years thought in business where you can leave, leave your personal life at home, and it just doesn’t work.

Dr Jean Oursler 21:41
No, no, it doesn’t. And I think especially with the pandemic, and Generation Z coming in, a holistic approach to your life has become really the way of being. And you it’s, it’s funny, again, I was talking in the speech today. I said in terms of generations, baby boomers, and xers will say this to me at the end of the program, and they’ll say like, I give you a nine, you’ll rate the speech, and they’ll give you a knot. And I’m like, Oh, great. Tell me why. And then they’ll say, because there’s always room for improvement. Yeah, okay. Sounds good. And then if I give to millennials, and Generation Z, I like so how would you rate the presentation, like it was a tad, it was awesome, keep going, you’re amazing you’d like, and it’s almost from their point of view is that if I don’t give you a 10, you won’t be motivated to do more. So I have to give you a 10 to motivate you. And think about just caveman brain around that. So that you have leaders who are saying, you know, you’re a nine, and you have workers who are saying what, I don’t want to be a nine, I want to be a 10. And if you give me a 10, I’m going to keep moving forward. And the leader says no, I’m gonna give you a nine because there’s always room for improvement. Okay.

Damon Pistulka 22:55
That’s awesome. That’s awesome. Oh, that’s great. It’s great. It’s a great example to you know, and again, we’re not talking about the the gens ears, or the Gen Xers or the baby boomers. I mean, we’re not we’re all trying to, to achieve the same things, right. And it’s so interesting to hear you talk about the generational differences, how the Baby Boomers and Gen Xers were taught to look at things compared to the millennials and Gen z’s. Because it is you and that little bit described a lot of our leadership problems in business.

Dr Jean Oursler 23:33
Yes, absolutely. And we as and I truly believe that we as leaders, especially with the pandemic, we need to pivot. And, you know, no offense to Jamie Dimon. Well, but when Jamie Dimon is like everybody back in the office, when we have had two years of being successful in this holistic life approach. You know, I’m a big advocate for working remotely. I’m a big advocate for hybrid working. I’m not a big advocate to put people back into the office five days a week, for a variety of reasons. And if you don’t like, you know, like, I get it, I’m happy to have the conversation, but I’m just not a big advocate. And I think it’s because we don’t teach leaders how to lead people.

Damon Pistulka 24:10
Yeah, yeah. I think there’s some I think a you 100% with you on. Yeah, there’s some things you’ve got to be there. I mean, you can’t physically do things virtually right. And that’s that we figure that out. But the you hit the nail on the head is some leaders are so antsy to go back to the way it was when they don’t realize that there are a lot of good things that we figured out. Yeah, there are a lot of good things we figured out because when you think about I think of it strategically from a business owners perspective, if I have people that can work virtually, and they say they have to be hybrid, right? Are we it works much better if they’re hybrid. Well, that’s cool. I can they still have to be within the region of relatively close to where we are, we’re going to be in our officer. But if you can work virtually, and I can figure out how to get that interaction with the virtual audience and the virtual people working together, get the teamwork, everything you can from the same. My goodness, it opens possibilities. Yeah, it does, yes. Because if I can hire the best developer in the world for my SAS company, that is happy living in Cody, Wyoming. And I find somebody else that’s in Austin, Texas, and somebody else that’s in Nashville, and we all figure out how to work together and they’re happier, where they live, than if I need to move them to San Francisco, where they all don’t get paid enough money to live like they want to they you know, all the kinds of things that you run into that kind of thing. How much better is that for you?

Dr Jean Oursler 26:01
So I’ve been running a virtual company for 10 years, I’ve figured all of that out. And I’ve thought about developing a leadership program to teach people how to do that. I just I haven’t gotten to it yet. But the fact is Damien you are spot on. It’s the to me. And even if you like in person, I get it. This is 80%. You know, this is not talking on the phone. This is 80% 80% is a B, it’s good enough in my beef in my beat mentality. Right? And when the pandemic health we’re like, yeah, everyone’s you reached out back to this finally made it up to us because virtual it to me is a wonderful world to live in. And hybrid. I get it. Most people want to do that. I’m good with that. For going back to work full time doesn’t make any sense to me. Yeah, from financial from a psychological from pointing out doesn’t make any sense. Other than I have a building that I need to fill. Okay. Go do something different with the building.

Damon Pistulka 26:57
Yeah, well, and honestly, when you look at well, here, I live I live north of Seattle, right? So someone from where I live, works in downtown salle. I am 15 miles away from downtown Seattle, that is at least a one hour commute each way. That’s two hours a day, every single day. That’s 10 hours a week at a minimum because there’s going to be days, it’s going to be a two hour instead of a one hour. But how much fresher is your is your person that if they’re set up, right, ready to go, you’ve done the things leadership wise, how much better? Are they for you? If they only do that? Maybe a couple times a week, maybe it’s three days, maybe it’s one day, maybe they don’t, you know, every month, whatever, there’s right cadence, but they don’t have to deal with that. Yeah, I just look at the mental toll I did it I, I had a commute up here younger in my career that was to the south side of Seattle. And it was anywhere from an hour and a half to two and a half hours one way, twice, more down and back, I would get hotel rooms just because I didn’t want to do it that much. And I’m just fortunate to be able to do the hotel room thing, right? But the grind that it took on me physically. And mentally. You You just you’re on Thursday, and you’re like, I just don’t even want to think about this. I missed I missed all my kids stuff this week. And all it’s going to rain. So I know the traffic’s gonna be bad tonight or whatever, you know. And we look at this and we go, we learned a wonderful thing. And I’m getting off topic now stop shortly. But I just think you bring up such a good point because it’s we got to look at what’s best for us. What’s best for us, I think and on the other part of the leadership thing is I think there are different things that we should be worrying about if people are going to work remotely because I think now it comes down to is Damon a good person to be working remotely? I don’t mean Mike character traits in the way I work and things like that. There’s some things we need to check out. But don’t throw it out the door.

Dr Jean Oursler 29:13
I would agree with 100% I’m right there. And if you want any of your listeners want to call me up and have a conversation about it. Good, bad, ugly. I’m all in. I’m all in for like a pro. But I’m gonna tell you I’m gonna end up being on the hybrid, full virtual all the time. Yeah,

Damon Pistulka 29:29
yeah. Good stuff. Well, back to the caveman brain. Oh, yeah. I love the caveman brain. I just love the I love the way the words. So, you know when you’re helping companies and leaders go through this. What are some of the the challenges you see across the board with self awareness?

Dr Jean Oursler 29:56
Oh, that was oh, so Oh, I haven’t gone there. I’m like, Oh, okay. So most people are not very, most people are not very self aware a most people are living inside their head. And most people’s caveman brains are making up stories about things that just aren’t real. And then they’re living those stories in a way that makes it real. And rather than making it about them, imagine if you made it about everybody else, how much better everything would be because caveman brain wouldn’t be obsessing about whatever we obsess about in our head that has to play what I call a hell loop. Like it just goes round and round and round around. So we have you I always think to myself, it’s very important to do all the self self assessment that you can to learn about you. And there’s nothing wrong with inviting feedback. You know, what do you think? Just because they think that you’re a jerk and you think you’re fabulous doesn’t mean that you can’t change and modify your behavior for that person. And still be true to yourself. A lot of times, the reason why like we use Clifton Strength Finders, that’s the assessment we love the most, because your strengths become your weaknesses. And if you don’t realize that, that is the that it’s an it’s self aware around it, then you’re in trouble, which is one of the reasons why my clients love caveman brain so much because now they get to say, that’s a caveman brain. Dr. Chang, I got caveman brain. I’m caveman Braining. So caveman brain has become this adjective, adverb noun, add adverb, action word verb. It’s funny. People use it. Because once they start to realize what caveman brain is, and where it’s showing up, and how it’s showing up, and they have a name to it. And what’s really fascinating is my accountability partner at the time was like, You can’t call it caveman brain, because it’s just the symptom. What’s really also the solution. Because when you become self aware, and know where to go, and how to get to the outcome that you want to get to, then feel like you can use all your self awareness to be amazing. Yeah, amazing. Yeah.

Damon Pistulka 32:05
You said, Awesome stuff all the way through there and enjoying the heck out of it. And I’m sure this I do want to say a couple of things. First of all, unique Great to have you again, he’s eating the food of the brain. Good stuff. Deanna. She’s got a superb reflection. So thanks. Thanks for the comments, everyone. You said something about the hell loop? Or what the hell do and he was reading about this last week, and it was talking about that. And I was thinking about how much our brains you talk about the amygdala. Miglia can’t say the caveman brain. Yeah, go it’s a lot easier to say. Yes, they’re gonna say, a lot easier to say how the caveman brain does that it tricks us. Our caveman brain. Zig says, Oh, this big old ugly thing is gonna happen. It is not even close to reality.

Dr Jean Oursler 33:07
Nope. Nope. Not even close. And the reason why it does that is it has one job and one job only to ensure that you don’t die. That’s it. So it has to make up stories to make sure that you don’t do those things, that things that may never even happen. And yet, I gotta know what will happen if I do X or Y or Z. All right, let’s play it out. Now we call that decision tree questioning and my in my company though, yes, no, I don’t know. So you can figure out all the little pathways for your caveman brain and then play it forward. But for the most part, most things that people dream up, don’t ever really come

Damon Pistulka 33:42
true. Yes, yes, I have to be

Dr Jean Oursler 33:45
prepared just in case it happens.

Damon Pistulka 33:49
It’s amazing when you think about that. And when you when you translate that into business. It turns into it this cycle that you just can’t you some leaders just can’t. You just can’t get

Dr Jean Oursler 34:00
out. Right? They can’t I no offense if you are one of these, but I had a colleague when we used to do a lot of work in Fortune 500 companies and he’d be like, there’s Chuckles The Clown. And everyone has a Chuckles The Clown in their organization. And as that leader, as a leader, I will urge you to always constantly grow, read, do learn, explore self, self examine, because that’s the only way you become a greater leader. And not to be Chuckles The Clown.

Damon Pistulka 34:28
Yep, good stuff.

Dr Jean Oursler 34:31
And all of us have one unfortunately, unfortunately, all of us have a Chuckles The Clown.

Damon Pistulka 34:35
Yes. Yes. I think we have chocolate as a clown in life too.

Dr Jean Oursler 34:40
Probably. But we were talking about leadership. So I want to talk about leaders to keep it on leadership. So yes,

Damon Pistulka 34:48
yes. Well, so as as you’re teaching people about the caveman brain. What are some of the things that that you’re here then come back and say about how their life changed their business change.

Dr Jean Oursler 35:03
Oh, wow. Yeah, that’s that’s the best part about my job is the number one thing that people come back and tell me about is that they’ve gained so much more confidence. So they’re more confidence as a business developer, they’re more confident as a leader, they’re more confident as a business owner. And confidence, translate into so many interesting things when you’re more confident, as that is actually the number one thing we hear. Because caveman brain also creates a lot of fears. And, and one of the biggest fears, believe it or not, is fear of success. And you think, wow, that seems so odd that we all want to be so so much successful. And yet we have a fear of being success. Because if we are successful, all these things could happen to us, we could have more work, right, we can have people telling us that we have too much money, right? So there’s a lot of things. And so for our clients, most of them don’t have fear of failure or fear of missing out, they have fear of success. And when they learn how to minimize it, because you never can eliminate it, you can only minimize it, they become more confident, which then translates into more success. And they’re able to handle that success, regardless of what would happen, whatever they’re thinking about in the past. And that, to me is just the most glorious thing ever. So that’s the number one thing that happens when you work on your caveman brain.

Damon Pistulka 36:31
Nice. That’s great, because as we’re talking about today, and as you talk about unlocking, you know, business growth, potential, confidence is everything, confidence, everything, and what we talked about before that the fears just chip away at that confidence chip away at your confidence in this is the right solution for you to a potential customer, you should select us because we’re better than the other company, you know, the other choices because of this, it just chips away at all those little things, our team is good enough to do this, well maybe, you know, just chips away at all. So that confidence is what really, really makes it makes it happen.

Dr Jean Oursler 37:14
And the other thing, Damien that people say to us is that I’ve calmed the brain and the voice inside my head. So many of us have this voice inside our head. That isn’t always very nice to us. And when you learn about caveman brain, you can say thank you so much caveman brain for giving me those thoughts because I know you want to protect me. And notice I’m saying it out loud. So my caveman brain goes, okay. And then you say and and not bought, and because but negates everything you said beforehand. So and, and we’re gonna do this instead. And caveman brain goes, okay? Because he knows what it sees and what it hears and wants to make sure that you don’t die. So like, for example, when you buy a car, and it’s blue, all you do is see blue cars all the time. And that’s because caveman brain is reinforcing that you did the right thing, you, you were smart, you’re not going to die because you bought a blue car. So when you talk to your brain and say to your brain, thank you for this nasty thought that you’ve given me, because really all you’re doing is protecting May, I appreciate you, I want to do this instead, keep remembering those, okay? Because it’s like, whatever you want it to do, as long as you can give it the right thoughts, it will then act on that because it only knows what it sees and what it hears. So if you watch a lot of so it’s interesting. I before I came on i The news came on, and I very rarely watched the news. I read it, but I don’t watch it. And I don’t watch it. Because it upsets me. And I think to myself, like I was just watching just a couple of minutes could just happen to flip on from the show that and I was like, oh, and then I thought I have to go out and meet Amy and I can’t have all this negative energy bouncing around in my God, you know, like, what are we doing? So what we consume, you know, whether it’s reading or watching or listening is super important for your caveman brain. Because if you’re consuming things that are super negative, you’re gonna think super negatively. That’s the other thing that people the calming of that voice, The Taming of that voice to make your propeller not their derailleur is a great thing that happens to

Damon Pistulka 39:24
Well, yeah, and I mean, and in some professions, it’s almost looked at positively if you’re one of those warriors or one of those people that does that. And it’s a it’s not sustainable, but it’s just not the best way to be when you can’t disengage from it.

Dr Jean Oursler 39:46
Yes. And so what I say to my clients, I say to them, Do you want to live in the drama circle? Like if that’s what you want to do? There’s nothing wrong with it. There’s no good or bad there just is. And if you want to live in the drama circle like that’s fine. I just know that you’re living in the drama circle and don’t complain about it because that’s the choice you made. Right? So like my mom’s a worrier. Great, I gotta give you something to worry about. Awesome. Do you want to be a World Warrior? Famous? I have a client who was like, who we diagnosed her as being a wobbler. She’s like, I’m a wobbler. I’m like, Yes, you wobble all the time. decide how you want to live? No, well then change it or I like it. And it shows me it makes me feel good. Great. It did. There’s again, there’s no good or bad, we’re caveman brain is concerned. It’s just is yes, you make it good or bad, depending on what you want to do with it.

Damon Pistulka 40:42
That’s awesome. So great to get to talk to you, Dr. Jean, because it you know, we all suffer from caveman brain in certain aspects of our lives certain degrees of applicability. So for for people that that are sitting here going, Wow. I need some help with the my caveman brain. What’s the best way to get a hold of you? So believe

Dr Jean Oursler 41:11
it or not, and this is gonna sound really simple. Just go to caveman brain.com That’s all it is. My mission in life is to leave you better than I found you. So I often I say this is that if you want to send me an email and ask me a question, it’s gene at caveman brain.com. Everything’s caveman brain in my life because caveman brain made a huge difference for me. And the reality is, is that don’t be a stranger, ask a question. You know, like, come to our website, download some free tools, take watch our webinars, take our course. You know, sign up for coaching, whatever it might be. It’s all there. We know there are people who want to DIY we know there are people who just want to jump in headfirst. Either way is fine. Our mission is to leave you better than we found you that is our true calling in life.

Damon Pistulka 41:59
Thank you. Thank you so much. I just it’s really a pleasure to talk to you Dr. Jean. And thank you for that. Thank you for that. So, people if you didn’t hear that talk, check out Dr. Gene Oursler. The results Queen caveman brain.com. Thank you so much for being here today. Thank you so much for sharing your insights on the caveman brain and how people can really unlock that growth potential. We I just thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We will be back again later this week. But I don’t know how we’re going to talk about this one. Thanks, everyone for being here hanging out with a minute with me Dr. Jean and we’ll talk

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